Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

Girlguiding carry out regular survey of their members on issues such as this.

A startling result of one of these:
Girls aged 11 to 21 told us that they’d experienced in the past week:
 39% had had their bra straps pulled by boys
 27% had had their skirts pulled up by boys

In February 2018, Girlguiding published a response to the Women and Equalities Select Committee Inquiry on sexual harassment of women and girls in public places

www.girlguiding.org.uk/globalassets/docs-and-resources/research-and-campaigns/girlguiding-wesc-sexual-harassment-in-public-places-inquiry-response-feb-2018.pdf

The figures in this document are truly shocking, especially given the age ranges - usually 11-21, but sometimes as low as 8. And they relate to ordinary, everyday life such as going to school.

My first vivid memory was walking by myself at 12/13 and a car driving past beeping, slowing down and shouting some sexual words at me.

Considering I had no real idea about sex / masturbation etc it was definitely a on eye opener

Had a random stranger messaging me last week asking if I was single, to my Facebook add selling kids trainers!

Oh and to add my tuppence, no I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t been sexually harassed.

In my early teens was out shopping with my pals. Long packed escalator in the shopping centre. I felt someone rubbing up against me, moved forward to make space and didn’t realise what was happening until my friends pulled me away. A man in his 40’s/50’s was trying to masturbate on me. We ran off, knew it was ‘not good’ but didn’t have the vocabulary for it and didn’t tell anyone, it was kinda shrugged off. This was late 80’s/early 90’s on a Sat afternoon in a packed shopping centre in a large city. If someone does that so blatantly what else are they capable of.

Also had an experience on a train in broad daylight in Japan. Man sat opposite wanking off ‘to me’. That’s why they have female only carriages in Japan. Beautiful country but don’t get me started on some of the misogyny there. I was older this time, wearing a professional suit, and disgusted so shouted at him and moved away. No one on the rest of the carriage said anything and looked down.

Lots of low level stuff in bars and wolf whistling. Never experienced it in the workplace, sexism maybe.

Pre-COVID I travelled a lot internationally on my own and was always incredibly vigilant/on high alert in a way I know my males colleagues aren’t. When a car didn’t collected me or I had to take taxis a lot I remember being pleased when Google Maps and Uber came along so I could follow where I was being driven at least.

Every woman that I have discussed this with IRL has experienced harassment (or worse). There seems to be a difference of opinion about whether 'minor' examples are harassment or just 'a laugh' but I've never spoken to any woman who has not been catcalled, groped, or made to feel threatened by forceful unwanted male attention.

I think a big part of the solution would be for every man who is not like that (since NAMALT is the usual response when this issue is raised) to call out other men who do this sort of thing every single time. Most of my experiences of harassment were in public places with lots of other men (and women) around who at best looked away and said nothing and at worst treated me as unreasonable for complaining.

As an example- in my 30s and heavily pregnant coming home from work on the train an older man came to sit next to me and tried to start a conversation. The more I tried to make it clear I didn't want to chat (reading etc) the more personal and sexual his questions and comments became. I asked him to move to let me out and he refused, saying he knew it was not my stop yet. When I did get off he followed me to my car and continued telling me what a rude bitch I was etc. and tried to open my door. Not one of the men on the train, in the station or in the carpark (and there were quite a few) said anything. When I reported the issue to the station staff the following day I was told that he was probably just a bit drunk and nothing actually happened so not to worry. I saw him on the train quite a few times after that, often trying to start similar conversations with other women and on one occasion a group of school girls. I did tell him, very loudly, on several occasions that no woman on the train wanted to discuss their sex lives with him so he should ask the same questions to one of the men. The looks/mumbles etc I got were much more than any reaction to his behaviour. One man helpfully suggested I should calm down a bit and there was no need to be rude.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been sexually harassed / abused and almost every female friend I know has stories to tell also; many of which have only confided in me after 10/15 years of friendship.

For example, I had a police officer attempt to molest me when I was 17 years old. When I reported the incident to the police ombudsman back in 1997 I was told that I would not be believed so I didn’t progress the complaint. I expect the response would be different now.
I have had a boyfriend force himself on me when I said no.
When I was a waitress I had chef corner me in the pantry and try and kiss me.
I have had a manager as a professional working woman grope me twice at the Xmas party. When I complained, only after an appeal was my complaint upheld, but ultimately I was ostracised at work and it didn’t end up well for me professionally.

Of my female friends, I know one was raped as a teenager, 2 were molested by family members as children, and if was to go now and speak with them all in my wider circle, I am sure I would have countless stories and probably a 95% hit rate of confirmed sexual harassment / abuse.
I am thankful that I managed to escape my childhood till 17 years of age sexual abuse free, but in my experience I would say most if not close to all women have been sexually harassed / abused at some point.

In the context of all the violence I see right now being perpetuated against women, and the media attention it is given, it make me so so angry and so so worried as to how to keep my two DDs safe.

Knowing that most sexual abuse starts in the home front - I am also warily cautious, of my DDs interactions around all male members of my family too. I have no reason to be wary but you can’t ignore the facts.

For all the progress of feminism, I feel so so so bloody angry right now about women’s poor status and treatment, and every next reported account and incident winds me up. I am furious.

I had never thought about whether I had been sexually harassed because I either blocked it or normalised it as some males behaviour.

When I give it some thought I’ve experienced a hell of a lot of it from age 12 ish. From flashers, being groped, men crossing boundaries during sex, verbal abuse on the streets, etc.

@HaNNaHC92

I'm 28 and have not experienced male harassment or even come close to. There's obviously a lot of women out there who have been, but I think the numbers are exaggerated and are still small compared to those who have not been.

Sad to say, but you're wrong. Glad to hear you've been spared. So far.

Harassed regularly in my 20s especially and at work

@WhatAreWordsWorth

If you have ever been catcalled, wolf whistled at or been on the receiving end of unwanted sexual comments from somebody, you have been sexually harassed.

If you’ve had your boobs or bum touched or groped in school/a bar/nightclub, then you have been sexually assaulted.

I find it pretty much impossible to believe that there’s a single woman out there who hasn’t experienced any of these things.

I think there is a lot of minimising of this kind of 'minor' harassments. When I was in my 20's I certainly just thought it was something to endure on a night out. Oh and how many times having been groped and calling the guy out, to have them then apologies to your bf rather than you?!

I’m in my 60s, so fortunately grew up before smartphones and social media, attended a single-sex school, and never went clubbing. I have however been propositioned at the bus stop on my way home from school, flashed at, groped on the tube, catcalled on so many occasions, been groped, leered at and had obscene remarks from patients at work, been subject to ‘suggestions’ from men in vans. Also as a young mother with small children, been harassed by the window cleaner!

@SweetPetrichor

I’m 31 and I have never been harassed, cat called, touched, groped or anything untoward. I work in a male dominated environment as well which ups the stakes. Maybe I’m just ugly...or maybe it’s not as much of an issue as people think. I don’t do anything to provoke unwanted attention though and I think that makes a big difference.

Are you suggesting those of us who have been harassed or assaulted provoked the man and somehow asked for it?

@SweetPetrichor

I’m 31 and I have never been harassed, cat called, touched, groped or anything untoward. I work in a male dominated environment as well which ups the stakes. Maybe I’m just ugly...or maybe it’s not as much of an issue as people think. I don’t do anything to provoke unwanted attention though and I think that makes a big difference.

Why is the woman provoking or you’re assuming this? I was pretty in my 20s and hardworking - why did that provoke older married mates to hit on my constantly? When I got into a private cab how did I provoke the driver ? Oh I was pretty , better hope my dds aren’t when they grow up then

Most of these things. Groped, complete stranger putting his hand up my skirt in broad daylight, bloke in office groping me, sister's much older boyfriend groping me when I was a young teenager, several flashers, kerb crawler late at night, pests on train not leaving me alone. I actually put on weight in my 30s and I think that was partly to avoid the hassle because I was sick of it.

I'm sure it is a minority of guys that do this, but all men (and women) are part of the solution by taking a zero tolerance policy of any form of harassment, including catcalling, jokes about women's anatomy, uninvited touching, unwanted messaging, dick picks etc. It's not a joke.
And those women who minimise it and suggest that we should just women up and ignore it/do a suitable put down etc as some sort of criticism of the victims (I'm not talking about anyone on this thread btw) are a big part of the problem.

We need women to stop victim blaming or minimising creep's behaviour. The responsibility is always with the creep. And until we put it squarely there we will get nowhere.

@SweetPetrichor

I’m 31 and I have never been harassed, cat called, touched, groped or anything untoward. I work in a male dominated environment as well which ups the stakes. Maybe I’m just ugly...or maybe it’s not as much of an issue as people think. I don’t do anything to provoke unwanted attention though and I think that makes a big difference.

How does one 'provoke unwanted attention'?

I have to say I've never suffered any workplace harassments either, but I'm in the same role as the men and I've listened to them make derogatory comments about the women who work in the support roles. I think its called compartmentalising.

I am 50. I’ve not had a particularly eventful or adventurous life, and yet, from school age onwards I have experienced sexual harassment in a variety of settings.

• Cat calling from scaffolding and work vans

• Being flashed in a public park while with 3 other girls

• Having my backside groped on the up escalator on the tube

• Getting off a packed tube train after feeling uncomfortable and finding semen on the back of my coat

• Being with two other women and having to run back to our hotel after being surrounded by a group of young men while on holiday in a European city

• Being hassled and subsequently afraid to walk home after rejecting a drunken dickhead in a pub

And so many other examples...

Until society stands up and says that NONE of this is acceptable, that catcalling isn’t harmless, that women shouldn’t have to cover up or avoid places, that rape victims must be believed and cases consistently prosecuted, that it’s just wrong to attempt to intimidate women by virtue of men being bigger and stronger, then we will never move forward.

With my recent business man incident they were all wearing lanyards I wish I had complained to his company but of course I didn’t want him to lose his job. His friends apologised and said it always happens when he is drunk so why do they allow him to hang out. So there is 2 other reasons why this continues .

@Wimpeyspread I know - I’m so angry at that comment. I mean if there are women like this who think other women must be provoking men - well we are seriously in trouble. Absolutely disgraceful view

How dare you @SweetPetrichor suggest women do something to provoke unwanted attention and that’s it’s non-ugly girls who this happens to you. 13 years olds are asking for it are they? People in professional suits are asking for it? Someone sunbathing in a bikini - just a piece of fresh meat asking for it.

I’m pleased this hasn’t happened to you - yet but it’s women with attitudes like yours that perpetuate this just as much as men.

I was talking to my husband about this the other night.

It seemed quite “normal” when I was young and going out back in the 90’s. If men chatted to you in clubs and stuff and touch weren’t interested you’d get called stuck up. If you were friendly you “obviously” fancied them. Bum being grabbed in bars etc. My daughter is only 14 and we’ve chatted about this stuff a lot. I’m happy she’s a lot more confident than I was and wouldn’t stand for that.

@SweetPetrichor

I’m 31 and I have never been harassed, cat called, touched, groped or anything untoward. I work in a male dominated environment as well which ups the stakes. Maybe I’m just ugly...or maybe it’s not as much of an issue as people think. I don’t do anything to provoke unwanted attention though and I think that makes a big difference.

I'm fairly certain I did nothing to provoke the man who flashed me and my friend aged 16. Just walking along a residential street with his dick hanging out.

I also don't think I have ever done anything to attract the attention of countless builders wolf whistling and yelling at me whilst minding my own business. OK, most comments were 'only' things like Ow'right love, or 'morning gorgeous', but I hadn't asked for any attention, and it was embarrassing and unsettling. And in the 80s, it was very much normal.

Being groped in night clubs and on the tube was considered normal. IT shouldn't have been.

@FilthyforFirth

I have and I dont know any other females who havent. My story is depressingly common, going by this thread, a guy tried to chat me up on a train. I explained I wasnt interested and he immediately turned verbally abusive. It was horrendous, I was stuck on a packed commuter train whilst he loudly shouted about how ugly I was, he filmed the abuse on his phone. Not one person attempted to stop him and several men (and even more depressingly a few women) even laughed along with him.

Was utterly horrendous and I felt so vulnerable on public transport for months after.

What a depressing post, I’m so sorry you experienced that. I’m amazed that no one spoke up.

People need educating. This cannot go on any longer. Teach children what is and isn’t acceptable. And teach them to call out this behaviour.

First experience age 16. The boy sitting next to me in class decided to inappropriately touch me and laugh about it with his friends. I felt like it was my fault until I got home and told my dad. He went ballistic and stormed up the school saying it was not ok. School glossed over it because it was lads being lads.

Next age 18, in the middle of the day walking through the city centre chatting to my friend. A much older man started cat calling me, ran over and tried to touch my boobs. My friend swatted him away and we ran off.

More recently, my twat boss told me to get into the kitchen and do the washing up because that was a woman's place. I told him that he didn't scare me and he could set an example to others. I quit later that day.