Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

I'm 35.
I've had my bum felt by a strange man in a bar.
I was followed once in SE London as a student. I literally ran away from him and he laughed.
A man in South London asked "how much do you charge" with a smirk on a weekday afternoon while I was walking ans minding my own business.
I was in a risky situation with a flatmate's very drunk brother and his friend (she let them stay while she was away), but managed to persuade them out of my room and into the kitchen for snacks. I then stayed awake all night with my bedroom door locked.

More times than I care to count! Starting young.

A friend of mine recently got wanked at at a bus stop. She's in her 40s and was with her primary age son!

I'll mention to her that maybe get dad was not much use and that's why it happened

I've never been stalked, groped or touched in a way that offended me.
I don't like walking in the dark but that's not because I'm scared of a man jumping out, I'm scared of anything jumping out.

I have never been offended or been bothered with comments, but it does fall into that category though, but I think unless it effects you negatively some simply don't think it's sexual harassment, but it is and it needs to stop.

I will certainly be trying to raise my son to call out sexual harassment when he sees it from his mates

Thighs
You said 'perhaps I didn't notice it because it was so normal'.

I am just really not sure what that means?

I was never brought up to be a princess, absolutely totally and utterly the opposite, can't even begin to tell you... I've been fiercely independ since I left home at 17, but it's happened to me countless times

Too many times to mention from age 14 upwards. Being flashed at when I was 16, groped aged 14 by the pub manager giving me a lift home from the pub I worked in. Age 15 in France on repeat groped by French exchanges dad and cousins, her and her mum just thought it was funny I was terrified. X 4 the times female friends male partners have come onto me, most recently Halloween last year.

FB deactivated due to unwanted friend requests and messages. Insta and Twitter now don't even have my face on, just a picture of a flower. I'm so sick of it. I hate it. When it happens so frequently you begin to think there's something wrong with you. It's made my social anxiety even worse in case when I speak to a man at a gathering I get accused of teasing or flirting so I'm very quiet. I only really feel comfortable amongst long standing male friends who I trust and gay men.

DD age 12 getting leered at by a man in his 50s in a street in Spain. I was too scared to ask him to stop so we just ran away. Mugged by males when pregnant and then with very young children. I can't stop crying since Wednesday. When I think about how massive this problem is. Just makes me want to hide away at home.

@WhatAreWordsWorth

If you have ever been catcalled, wolf whistled at or been on the receiving end of unwanted sexual comments from somebody, you have been sexually harassed.

If you’ve had your boobs or bum touched or groped in school/a bar/nightclub, then you have been sexually assaulted.

I find it pretty much impossible to believe that there’s a single woman out there who hasn’t experienced any of these things.

I honestly don't think I have. But as I said, I have never gone in for bars or nightclubs. And the guys I used to work with were nice guys.

I have on a number of times, even by a family member as a child.
I'm plain as plain can be but I think I've been far too polite my entire life. Not wanting to rock the boat, preferring a quiet life (which of course should be absolutely normal!)
I was talking to my partner last night and we have two little girls. I said I think we're going to have to raise them to be cold and not afraid to be 'rude'
It's been decades and nothing seems to change. I think even men who are classed as 'woke' over feminism face ridicule and are few and far between.

@ThighsofSteel I have a wonderful father, growing up he was a fierce feminist (doesn’t seem so much anymore but anyway).

That doesn’t stop men grabbing your arse of rubbing against your tits as they walk past in a pub.

It doesn’t stop them knowing you’re too drunk to give consent but taking you home anyway.

Fatherly role models, I think, influence relationships not unwanted sexua harassment.

A couple of years ago I was chatting about this with a group of women at work (all in 40s and 50s) and 9 out of 10 of us had experienced flashing, aggressive catcalling, bum pinching, men shouting abuse at you when you exercise, assault on the tube etc. I didn’t share more serious stuff like CSA and DV, but I could have.

One woman said she’d never experienced anything like it. She said it didn’t happen in her community. I didn’t say anything but she’d told me privately the month before how scared she’d been on her way home because a man was following her. She’d phoned her husband to come and meet her. Maybe she didn’t think if it as sexual harassment. She obviously didn’t want to share so I didn’t raise it.

I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been sexually harassed and assaulted.

I've never been just randomly geoped by a stranger, nor have I been sent a dick pick.
When men used to try to ask me on a date, I said no, they tried again I said no in a waay that under no circumstances could they have misunderstood.
I was, however, obviously (quite sad it's "obviously") harrased too just in different ways. And assaulted. Or followed. But each happened only once. And I am not the most "careful" person, I have and never had issue walking by myself etc.

I think we all have our own boundaries, which are personal and sometimes culturally based. So we each consider a slightly different thing a harassment based on our personal threshold.

It's only now that I'm older with a young daughter that I look back on my youth and past and realise that boys/men did and do behave inappropriately, lot. And we just accept it and normalise it: because that's what men do. Boys will be boys

Unwanted attention, not taking no for an answer. Pressurising into sex. Society has treated us differently and has different expectations of women.

@ThighsofSteel

What a horrible post. How could having a wonderful father make any difference? Are you saying all those women who experienced harrassment just weren't aiming high enough or failed to have a 'male' demeanour at work.

No, what I was actually saying is that too many fathers teach their daughters what their place should be.

You are victim blaming. Women aren't assaulted and harassed because they don't know their place!

I was also never wolf whistled at.

The thing is that even for the women that have said no they haven’t, we know they’ll have been leered at, that a man will have uttered something contemptible to his friends. And it’s those moments where the problems start, and those moments that we need all men to say that’s not ok.

@ekidmxcl

I doubt there is any adult woman who hasn’t experienced this stuff. It’s everywhere.

That said, the perpetrators are a minority of men. Yet they are so prolific. Any one of these creeps will be treating women like this pretty constantly. One creep will likely have hundreds of victims. However, most men do not behave like this, and many are also victims of it.

My husband had a young female colleague come up to him and start trying to undo his trousers at a work do, in full view of a male friend, absolutely blatant. I think when women do this, it’s less threatening to the male victim (my Dh is a foot taller than this woman and probably twice her weight).
My brother is a teacher and upon telling an unruly 12 year off for throwing a drink over another student, the 12 year old retorted that she would be telling everyone that my brother was a paedo if he sanctioned her. Fortunately another teacher overheard this threat. But his career could have been trashed by this otherwise.

It all needs tackling IMO and to speak about men in their entirety negatively is not helpful IMO. I am not a man but I was, I would feel pretty annoyed to be lumped in with predatory men as one “problem”.

It may be a minority who become the violent psychos that pursue women to their deaths. I really disagree that it's a minority of men who have twisted thinking.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/10/almost-all-young-women-in-the-uk-have-been-sexually-harassed-survey-finds

I am 55. No one has ever tried to touch me or grab me in any way; no one has made any unwanted advances. The only kind of harassment I have had is fairly infrequent and very bland, mild comments from strangers on the street when I was young. These are offensive, wrong, and intimidating for girls and women, but they have never been graphic or extreme. I think I used to go under the radar quite often. I never even got the stares, really.

I was thinking about this this morning. I'm the same age as you and started to experience cat calling at the age of 15. I was so embarrassed as my parents were there, but it became a daily occurrence walking to school in my uniform. I've had men shout things out to me, grope me, men at work (a lot older I may add) when I was in my early 20s come on to me. On a night out as a teenager a man exposed himself to us in a pub. We thought it was funny at the time but we didn't really understand. It all seemed part of the norm back then but it's definitely affected me in that I completely cover myself up now and hate walking alone.

“I think fathers are important in all this, is my simple point. It's not helpful for women to be brought up expecting to be princesses.”

Princesses in what sense?
My dad is great- it’s all still happened to me.

I said no, they tried again I said no in a waay that under no circumstances could they have misunderstood.

I said no clearly too.
Still got raped

Oh and when I was really young, about 8, a man made me touch his crotch at a roller disco. The only person I have ever told about it is my husband

Ah yes, I must have been acting like a princess when as a 13yo walking home from school, a van pulled over so the driver could show me his cock. It was obviously my princessy ways.

FFS.

And no, OP, I don't know a single woman that hasn't experienced some sexual harassment at some point in her life.

40s and don't know anyone who hasn't been.

Not had a problem for many years, but I put that down to a combination of being older (and less attractive) and rarely going to pubs/clubs.

Very sad to look around me and see the same problems for the younger generation and watching my daughter grow up wondering how to prepare her.

I was 5ft 8in by the age of 12; my mum had to take me shopping for some bras. When I was walking home from school wearing uniform, I used to get shouted at by builders and men in cars.

As an adult I have always worn a least a double G cup. I worked as a chef - there is nothing off limits to talk about in kitchens. I had a head chef ask me my bra size, then tell me that the male staff had a bet on what it was! Another colleague followed me into the female changing rooms after my shift, saying “I’d like to do you!”

Groped on public transport in London, flashed at a few times. Approached by a total stranger with the words, “Do you take it up the arse?”

Thighs your father sounds wonderful but how you were raised to be has no bearing on whether you were going to be the victim of sexual harassment or not. Teaching you to be confident is great and will certainly have helped you to develop healthy relationships with men in your life. It will also have made it less likely (not impossible) you would be a target for groomers as a child as they often deliberately target vulnerable children. But it will have absolutely no affect on the random men catcalling, honking horns, shouting sexual remarks, flashing, masturbating at women, groping, and yes - raping. A stranger in the street doesn’t give a shit how confident you are. In fact a lot of them get off on having a woman stand up to them.

I agree that obviously men are the problem and should be modelling decent behaviour to both sexes of children. A father can model to his daughter how she should expect to be treated in a relationship and this will have an affect on his sons behaviour if he sees females being treated well by males, but, depressing as it is, there is absolutely nothing he can do to protect you from sexual harassment. We need to be teaching our sons not to view women as objects.

@Avaganda

I'm 30 and have never experienced harassment from men. The only man who has ever really spoken to me has been DH! I'm the sort of person who blends into the background and is never noticed, which maybe is a good thing reading this thread.

I'm also 30. I'm truly glad that you have never experienced harassment.

But its a shame that the narrative (from men and women) is still 'blend into the background' or it will happen to you...putting the emphasis completely on the woman and not on the perpetrators themselves.