The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

Change your wording to be a bit kinder to those less fortunate, men and women

@2021ismyyear

This is staring to sound very much like the “all white people are racist” argument. I’m a firm believer that there are many men out there can navigate through life without being a dickhead.

My dh says this is just making him cross and creating a divide when it isn’t necessary. He says as a white male he feels extremely hated right now and doesn’t feel like a valued member of society. We can’t raise one part of society by treating another like utter shit.

So your DH is making it all about him? Nice.

Maybe he should have a word with himself, and start trying to support women in their struggle to have life free from fear. That might make him feel better.

This thread, and others has actually taught me something about how we go about starting change.
For now, I think maybe we need to put people who are intent on challenging women who want change by diverting the conversation to be about men's feelings and thoughts rather than women's well being and safety, to one side, they're achieving the aim they're setting out to achieve - changing the subject because it's uncomfortable to think and talk about.
Instead we focus on people who want to evoke change, who are listening, who are asking what they can do. While our heads are turned trying to explain simple things to people who don't want to listen, we're losing the ear of those who do.
Let's talk to those who are saying "Let us help you" and leave the deniers to one side while we work with the people who are saying they want to.
Then as a stronger force, tackle the rest.

Google it, you’ll find it. I’ve not made it up.

The people that want to change sanitary towel wording... they are women. Not men. Though they identify as men.

Sorry I’ve made an error clearly. Men can’t be victims of domestic abuse. I’ve completely fabricated it. I must have dreamt up those stats because I. Is . Stupid!

Or maybe look it up and see the evidence for yourselves.

You are right. I am tired. So very tired.

Night night shrodingersbiscuit x

@katmarie

Is anyone else just fucking angry all the time about this? A tweet that doesn't even mention men, just describes women's experiences, and it's 'what about teh menz?' 'Namalt' 'stop demonising men' 'frame the argument nicely' etc etc.

God I just want to explode. We are talking about women, about their lives, their experiences, their wholy justifiable fears. You want to talk about men, fine, go start your own discussion, somewhere else. We are women and we have the right to talk about our experiences, and our fears, and our fears for our children. And by God we have the right to demand that men do something to address the vast number of incidents of violence perpetrated by their sex.

Gah, I'm just fucked off by it all.

This is exactly how I feel. I am SO sick of it all.

Everyone needs to fill this in, so we can actually get things changed, or at least start the process.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/violence-against-women-and-girls-vawg-call-for-evidence/violence-against-women-and-girls-vawg-strategy-2021-2024-call-for-evidence

@PlanDeRaccordement

I agree OP violence is violence and pretending it is always a man attacking a woman is ridiculous. In addition, the victim blaming against both men and women victims is awful.

How hard is it to understand?

Men attack men.

Men attack women.

A vanishingly small number of women attack anyone.

We are objecting to male violence. Yes - lots of it is directed at other men and any woman you speak to will tell you that we want that to stop and do what we can to help men stop attacking other men. If they can tell us how we could help with that.

But this discussion is about the men who attack women. Apparently it seems many men think it's too much for us to ask them to help us to do that when we CAN tell them what they need to do. And have.

Women attack men and women they know

Men attack both men and women they know and men and women they don't know.

All of it is problematic. But in this particular case, the focus is on women attacked by men they don't know. A phenomenon that doesn't affect both genders equally

I think this is the same confusion that came with BLM where some people understood it as only black people experience disadvantage rather than understanding this race as just one area of privilege that at the moment was the focus. People of all races can experience serious discrimination and disadvantage and may not have privilege in areas other than race - but at the time of BLM the focus was on that specific type of disadvantage faced by those who are black.

I think to get people on board you have to acknowledge the others. People relate at an individual level and think of people they know. So if they know a guy who has been violently victimized, that person matters to them and they see the pain, distress, anguish, trauma and want that validated (same as white people who experience serious SES disadvantage).

So I think it is important to acknowledge the different types of disadvantage or violence and then focus in on one. Humans are most closely connected to their immediate circle and that needs some validation to get onto the bigger issues.

I agree with OP. I fail to see anything useful from this.
Will this piece make any of those planning on attacking women make them stop and question themselves? Yes their are bad men out there, and women (and men) should take precautions when walking alone.
All I see in this piece is virtue signalling and promoting victimhood culture.

@Chant353

I agree with OP. I fail to see anything useful from this. Will this piece make any of those planning on attacking women make them stop and question themselves? Yes their are bad men out there, and women (and men) should take precautions when walking alone. All I see in this piece is virtue signalling and promoting victimhood culture.

It won't stop the born psychopaths, no.

But if men change the culture of male groups and how males talk to each other and how it is acceptable to behave in male friendship groups them YES it will change things. If men were ostracised from their friendship groups for making misogynistic comments in the same way they were for making racist comments, from a young age, it would make a HUGE difference to how they treat women as adults, as they'd know this behaviour instead of being celebrated would result in isolation.

Then all we'd have to deal with was the pschopaths, rather than a constant barrage of abuse and threatening behaviour and sometimes sexual abuse from men who consider this all to be - culturally - fair game.

We NEED good men to stand up and stp this out. It can't be done by women, we have tried for hundreds of years. Given our lives to try. And yet it continues.

So to all the men yelling NAMALT. Yes - we know. We are pinning our hopes on you. Stand up with us and call it out. Stop it. Make it socially unacceptable, make people who disrespect women a social pariah among men too. You CAN stop this, among the vast majority of men, we can't. You can't stop the psychopaths but you can change the culture so we feel safe. Will you do it?

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/disgraced-childrens-services-manager-caught-20101445
I read this yesterday- a social work manager in the department of children’s services with a daughter of his own was caught asking a child for underwear pictures. He also Searched for images of teenage sexual abuse on his Pc.
He Will of course be supported by his wife and mother as usual despite having a daughter himself and despite all evidence to the contrary the fools who were probably his friends and colleagues decided he posed no risk of reoffending, and him losing his job was punishment enough, so no jail time.
Although excuses were made as to why he committed the crime, no mention is made of an investigation into his conduct at work where he had unlimited access to vulnerable young girls. I’m terrified of the damage he may have caused as it would be likely any girl reporting hisbehaviour wouldn’t be believed and the girl dismissed as a fantasist.

Any bets that his wife and mum still believe he’s one of the good guys and not all men are like that and that the police entrapped him when he was stressed. Funnily enough I can be drunk and stressed, but never tempted to send a picture of my genitals to a child.

If we are to have any chance at all, the criminal justice system needs to stop excusing these men and hand out a substantial sentence rather than sending him home to his wife and daughter. Anyone looking at this case wouldn’t be deterred from acting like this, he’d have gotten a harsher sentence for pretty much anything else.

@Notmyfirstusername

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/disgraced-childrens-services-manager-caught-20101445 I read this yesterday- a social work manager in the department of children’s services with a daughter of his own was caught asking a child for underwear pictures. He also Searched for images of teenage sexual abuse on his Pc. He Will of course be supported by his wife and mother as usual despite having a daughter himself and despite all evidence to the contrary the fools who were probably his friends and colleagues decided he posed no risk of reoffending, and him losing his job was punishment enough, so no jail time. Although excuses were made as to why he committed the crime, no mention is made of an investigation into his conduct at work where he had unlimited access to vulnerable young girls. I’m terrified of the damage he may have caused as it would be likely any girl reporting hisbehaviour wouldn’t be believed and the girl dismissed as a fantasist.

Any bets that his wife and mum still believe he’s one of the good guys and not all men are like that and that the police entrapped him when he was stressed. Funnily enough I can be drunk and stressed, but never tempted to send a picture of my genitals to a child.

If we are to have any chance at all, the criminal justice system needs to stop excusing these men and hand out a substantial sentence rather than sending him home to his wife and daughter. Anyone looking at this case wouldn’t be deterred from acting like this, he’d have gotten a harsher sentence for pretty much anything else.

How anybody could read this and believe the issue does not require decent men to intervene to make it change - and that women should be able to fix it on their own - is beyond me.

@Notmyfirstusername

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/disgraced-childrens-services-manager-caught-20101445 I read this yesterday- a social work manager in the department of children’s services with a daughter of his own was caught asking a child for underwear pictures. He also Searched for images of teenage sexual abuse on his Pc. He Will of course be supported by his wife and mother as usual despite having a daughter himself and despite all evidence to the contrary the fools who were probably his friends and colleagues decided he posed no risk of reoffending, and him losing his job was punishment enough, so no jail time. Although excuses were made as to why he committed the crime, no mention is made of an investigation into his conduct at work where he had unlimited access to vulnerable young girls. I’m terrified of the damage he may have caused as it would be likely any girl reporting hisbehaviour wouldn’t be believed and the girl dismissed as a fantasist.

Any bets that his wife and mum still believe he’s one of the good guys and not all men are like that and that the police entrapped him when he was stressed. Funnily enough I can be drunk and stressed, but never tempted to send a picture of my genitals to a child.

If we are to have any chance at all, the criminal justice system needs to stop excusing these men and hand out a substantial sentence rather than sending him home to his wife and daughter. Anyone looking at this case wouldn’t be deterred from acting like this, he’d have gotten a harsher sentence for pretty much anything else.

So if they catch the wankers before they physically hurt a woman or child (this time) then suspeded sentence, no problem. Be careful not to get caught again for a bit.

Then go and carry on.

I am so fucking angry and sick of it all now.

The behaviour some men display towards women is often demeaning, especially among male peer groups.
This may influence some choices they make.
However, by saying men and only men are responsible for this kind of culture, I think is untrue and biased. They don’t live in a separate bubble from us. We all have brothers, sons, husbands, and friends, our lives are intertwined. It would be untrue to think we don’t have any influence on them. If you ask me, parents have the most to do with what kind of man a boy will become. And they will learn not by being ostracized by peer groups but by being raised by loving parents.
Also, a guy would have to be psychopath if the only reason he didn’t abuse a woman was because he’d be shunned by his peers if he did.

@Chant353

The behaviour some men display towards women is often demeaning, especially among male peer groups. This may influence some choices they make. However, by saying men and only men are responsible for this kind of culture, I think is untrue and biased. They don’t live in a separate bubble from us. We all have brothers, sons, husbands, and friends, our lives are intertwined. It would be untrue to think we don’t have any influence on them. If you ask me, parents have the most to do with what kind of man a boy will become. And they will learn not by being ostracized by peer groups but by being raised by loving parents. Also, a guy would have to be psychopath if the only reason he didn’t abuse a woman was because he’d be shunned by his peers if he did.

Right. So it's women's fault men behave like this.

What a novel idea. And so surprising.

To say that Sarah Everard's tragedy, or violence against women and girls, is a gender neutral problem, is to deny that females experience male violence BECAUSE they are female.

The Domestic Violence Bill is being Stonewalled to make it gender neutral, with a last minute amendment Amendment 87 B being rushed through Parliament.

Stonewall officer Lord Cashman has put himself down to speak on the Bill in the House of Lords today Monday 15th March 2pm The amendment comes from workshops co-branded with Stonewall, which says the secretary of State must issue guidance “based on sex or gender”, yet this guidance is the only place where male perpetrators and female victims will be addressed and the Stonewall amendment is designed to erase female people – women – as a class - in law.

More on this here the amendment will result in guidance which redirects police away from the straightforward task of recording male violence against women to considering “perceptions of hostility related to gender”

Nearly 20 years ago my husband was randomly attacked and left for dead not far from where Sarah was taken.

He was in a coma for a few days and they didn't think he would wake up.

I am sad that we are framing this as a woman only issue. I agree that men are the perpetrators but you are basically saying my husband's life doesn't matter as much.

I totally see where OP is coming from.