The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

@2021ismyyear

I think my biggest issue and why I felt compelled to write on this thread in support of the op is im beyond pissed off with the woke bandwagon nature of all these arguments. A new one every week.

We all agree that it would be completely fucking wrong of me to assume that all black young men in London are likely to stab me. I’ve looked up the crime stats on knife crime. I’ve read about police stop and search and how discriminated people feel. I know about the BLM movement. I’ve read about gangs.

Yet here we are and the same woke idiots are suggesting that men are a “class” and that the nice ones need to do something about the horrible ones actions. And that’s ok because there’s loads of men and they are not a minority group.

It’s woke/davina cancelling/bandwagon behaviour I can’t stand. With this... with piers Morgan, with race, mask wearing, royal family, with brexit. It’s exhausting. Next week there will be a new topic.

Head on back to the 1950s then. Times are changing. Get with it, or be offended for the rest of your life.

Pumper this is not the same. We are not working with men with targeted campaigns and asking them to unite as one with us. Many are saying that most of them are bad. People on this thread asking me to prove my husband is “good” and what has he done for society. Do people treat Muslim people like that... go on, prove to me that you are not a terrorist? Can you imagine the outrage!

You brought your husband into this.

You also are the one bringing Muslim people into this.

I have a sneaking suspicion that when you said we were saying men are class that there was a great misunderstanding being highlighted.

Maybe we are talking at cross purposes, maybe divided by a common language. That sort of thing!?

@2021ismyyear

Pumper this is not the same. We are not working with men with targeted campaigns and asking them to unite as one with us. Many are saying that most of them are bad. People on this thread asking me to prove my husband is “good” and what has he done for society. Do people treat Muslim people like that... go on, prove to me that you are not a terrorist? Can you imagine the outrage!

Honestly, do you live in cave? That does happen! That happens all the time!

Asking men to step up and sort out male violence is really not a massive ask - one of the good things that have come out of the discussions of the last few days is some men are slowly, slowly coming to this realisation too.

Not you or your husband or your stepdad though. Too sore about that discrimination they didn’t face.

Asking men to step up and sort out male violence is really not a massive ask - one of the good things that have come out of the discussions of the last few days is some men are slowly, slowly coming to this realisation too.

Not you or your husband or your stepdad though. Too sore about that discrimination they didn’t face.

Amen.

But number two he would be irritated at the PEOPLE (note, I didn’t say women) that thought that just because he was a man, he could do the same thing

wow

Could you answer my question further up the thread 2021 ?

Reason I ask is that you are arguing very passionately about this and using personal examples from your close family. It feels as though this subject means a great deal to you, despite so many if us clearly thinking differently to you.
I’m genuinely trying to understand.

My question was, what in your opinion is the best way to address the problem of violence against women and girls? What do we do differently at this time to make a change?

Interesting most women who are murdered it’s by the partner. For men it’s a friend or acquaintance. Plus knife crime is the biggest killer of males. Usually gang members murdering other gang member.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2019

How to address the problem, just thinking out loud and some probably crap ideas.

• educating boys (and girls) in school about respect for each other and for themselves. Eg. about consent. I remember getting taught about periods and pregnancy risk but not so much about consent.

• better mental health provision overall (I have always thought this even before this week) I reckon you could weed out some of the bad apples by identifying issues early on and trying to sort them.

• you rape someone or take part in violent crime against anyone. You go to prison for a long time, in some cases forever. I also believe that prison for so people should not be about reform. It should be about punishment

• tougher punishment for “less severe crime” like flashing people (this happened to me on a train when I was a young child and I vividly remember it)

• more government money spent on tackling domestic violence and helping people to escape.

• more laws against discriminating women in the work place eg gender pay gap. There is work to be done in the work place for sure. when I was a teen. I worked in a male heavy industry and I got locked in one day until I kissed the married senior colleague, it was awful!

• better checks on foreign nationals entering the country. If you committed a violent crime in your home country, you are not welcome here.

-harder sentencing for drugs. I’ve know of someone that sexually assaulted someone whilst on a cocaine binge. I also had an ex that scared the hell out of me when he hadn’t had a spliff in a while. Very angry individual.

• encouraging more women in certain professions. I’d like to see more women in jobs that come with great power.

• somehow rewarding the good people in our society. The men who stick up for women, the people that change our society for better.

-more surveillance better cctv (I’ve got nothing to hide). The people I know that have been flashed including myself had it happen on public transport. That can’t be coincidence.

• less gender stereotypes in tv and film.

• I know it’s not solving the issue at hand but at school I learnt dance and netball. Let’s teach our girls martial arts and self defence, close that power gap up a little bit.

You are bringing other groups into this discussion to make your point 2021ismyyear, so let's look at the Rochdale Grooming Case:

Were the Groomers and Rapists women?
What sex were the victims?
What happened to the two women who tried desperately to bring it to the attention of the authorities and get something done?
What happened to the female Police Officer who tried desperately to get action taken?
What happened to those male Police Officers who did nothing, turned a blind eye, dismissed the girls and called them sluts who deserved it?
Where were the good male Police Officers making their voices heard and supporting the female Police Officer, I am sure there are good male Police Officers why didn't they step up?

I asked the question as to why male violence has gone unchecked for Millenia, whether it was apathy or indifference or is it that good men cop a deaf one because they wouldn't do that, they then have the temerity to be all offended and hurt because they are part of the class that does.

If your husband and step father could get over their hurt feelings they could actually do something, after all men are listened to far more than women are.

Marcus Rashford tweeted this about the Sarah Everard murder:

This is just heartbreaking, I’m so sorry. This should have never happened. Men we have a role to play. To listen, to protect, and to allow women to feel safe at whatever time of day. I have sisters, nieces...just horrible. I’m sending my love to Sarah’s family

Seems he gets it unlike your husband and step father.

Things that DON’T help:

• making # empty statements on Twitter like “all men have a role to play”

• blaming all men and not recognising that some men are decent humans

men are in danger from violent men too

So we can all agree the problem is men?

Good glad that's sorted

Cross posted with your latest post 2021ismyyear.

Women have been trying and trying to get a number of those items in your list to happen, but without fail the you are demonising men, not all men are like that, what about the men you women want special treatment crap is thrown at women suggesting it.

@2021ismyyear check your Internet aliases misogyny - saying all men have a role to play is not 'blaming all men'

I'm so so sick of typing that this week. Are people REALLY that dense that they think ANYONE is blaming all men? Are male egos more important than women's lives?

@2021ismyyear

Things that DON’T help:

• making # empty statements on Twitter like “all men have a role to play”

• blaming all men and not recognising that some men are decent humans

I disagree ALL men do have a role to play, saying that does not mean they are not decent.

Why do men become so defensive, though? There’s no need for it, if they’re not like that. It isn’t about them, it’s about the women and children who have been abused.

My DH never gets into strops about it. He was there for me right through my PTSD generated flashbacks and supported me when I reported my historical abuse to the police.

And now, he wants this to be a better world for our DDs to grow up in. Our DDs and our DNieces. And he and I have both been involved in a Christian charity supporting Central Asian women who have suffered abuse, and some of whom were trafficked into prostitution.

We can’t change the world, but we can do what we can where we are.

Op didn't hang around then.

Am sick of the victim blaming. The whataboutery. The NAMALT. Thats not the point.

A woman died. A woman who should have been safe. Just like we should all be safe. In our own homes, walking down the street, sat next to my uncle in law.

Until misogyny is treated as unacceptable, I will continue to feel unsafe. Second class. That I have to apologise. Put others first. Accept others ownership over my body. It fucks me off.

Women as a class are discriminated against. It is right to discuss it, object to it, seek to change it.

If it makes men uncomfortable, good. Maybe they might start to understand what it's like to be a woman.

Thank you for answering my questions 2021. I would agree with many of those ideas in principle. Especially education. I think many women have also thrown their weight behind better mental health provision, tougher sentencing for rape and more funding to tackle DV and support survivors.

See .. men are the problem .

They need to do better .

Now bore off and stop denying women's experiences

@2021ismyyear

Some very good ideas for change here, thank you for sharing them on here.

Posted too soon

I think that we alone, without men also stepping up, cannot shift the change needed in those areas. Especially with the issues that predominantly impact women (DV, rape and sexual assault etc).

So as women are getting precisely nowhere on our own, all men need to recognise this and be part of the solution surely? Particularly the Good Ones.

If 'decent' men prioritise their hurt feelings and get all defensive in the face of yet another horrific act of male violence against a woman then those men aren't decent.

somehow rewarding the good people in our society.

As long as they're not Marcus Rashford

@2021ismyyear

Things that DON’T help:

• making # empty statements on Twitter like “all men have a role to play”

• blaming all men and not recognising that some men are decent humans

It's not about blaming all men and saying some men are decent. It's about educating and getting those decent men and women to pass a legacy on to create change towards attitudes to women. My DH is a decent man but I do find myself having to have conversations with him when he says to DD6 in a jokey way that she's dressing up to look nice for x, you have your hair done like that/wear a pretty dress so x likes it. He doesn't mean anything by it but it's casual attitudes like that that need to change and that needs to be passed onto our dcs. I don't want my DD worth measured by what men think of her, that her worth is based on her looks or that she needs to watch what she wears because of men. Same with DS8, I don't want him having this view of women. If you create a world where women are respected and teach this to our dcs hopefully things will change. It needs to start young.

You know what I mean about empty statements all for show on Twitter (#bekind one day and bitching about Meghan or Kate the next) Marcus rashford is a good man and has certainly done more than most to help kids out.

I just feel myself that you can get more out of someone If you are a bit kinder. It’s like automatic to feel a bit defensive. I’ve had it myself when I’ve gotten into debates about “all white people are racist”. I start to think of reasons why that isn’t true in my case, all the examples of why this is false.

I think by creating a divide by going in too harshly (all men are bad narrative) isn’t doing the cause any favours. There is a better way surely.