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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

The men I know feel like this too ...

999 replies

Givitarest · 12/03/2021 08:07

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

The men I know feel like this too ...
OP posts:
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7
cerseii · 12/03/2021 08:10

Why don’t posters on this forum keep Twitter on Twitter? Does every zany tweet need to be discussed here? Very weird

Champagneandmonstermunch · 12/03/2021 08:12

They are not demonising men. Just because men are also victims of male violence, that does not mean it is not a problem.

RestingPandaFace · 12/03/2021 08:13

Does anything that you’ve said finish the risk of violence towards women? They are separate problems and separate debates. Why does talking about violence against women make you uncomfortable?

JeffTheOracle · 12/03/2021 08:14

I can only find two news stories of men being abducted and murdered in the first couple of pages on Google - one in 2004 and one in 2011.

I don't believe your DH and its not misandry to say so

Catdogmum · 12/03/2021 08:14

I’m afraid that for me, the difference is that in both cases the perpetrators are men. Women are currently being asked to stay off the streets to save themselves from being attacked by men (and to give society a convenient victim blaming reason for any attack that does happen). Yes, you are absolutely correct that some men are vulnerable too - but the issue here is male violence and we all need to take steps to end the social contracts which allow it to happen and which have neighbours flocking to the front pages to tell the world that the men who have murdered their wives/parents/children were “lovely, quiet, family orientated” etc

AmandaHugenkiss · 12/03/2021 08:14

I’ve spoken to many men in my life over the years, and it never crosses their minds not to run on their own in the dark, not to walk home that mile late at night rather than take a taxi, not to take a long walk across isolated moorland on their own. They just can’t grasp what it is to life your life in fear of attack. I don’t think it’s the same thing.

Sleepingdogs12 · 12/03/2021 08:14

There is a pandemic of male violence. I am sorry but men need to start addressing this as a group ,which I really hope for as maybe it will have an impact. They can't expect women to do this for them we have enough on our plates .

ItMustBeBedtimeSurely · 12/03/2021 08:17

Women are killed - by men. Men are killed - by men. Men are the problem here.

Teach your sons to recognise that the patriarchal culture we live in is a threat to everyone. It’s true they are at risk too, but I bet they don’t feel fear walking along a street at night the way women do.

Don’t dismiss women’s experiences and fear with this not all men crap. We know it’s not all men, the point is that it’s enough of them to make us feel unsafe.

PegasusReturns · 12/03/2021 08:17

I have teen DSs and DDs.

The risks they face are different. Their opportunities to avoid violence different. The types of violence suffered are different.

Just because men suffer violence too does not negate the need to protect women.

Whilst is it not all men, it nearly always is a man.

ChameleonClara · 12/03/2021 08:18

YABU to try to diminish one problem by talking about another problem.

Ladybigbeach · 12/03/2021 08:19

Totally not the same, men haven’t been blamed for their own murders. Most men don’t do the things in that tweet. Ultimately though it’s men killing those men, but yeah let’s get angry at women saying they don’t feel safe as that’s more comfortable than talking about male violence. Ffs.

Winederlust · 12/03/2021 08:19

Men don't stalk or follow other men down dark streets at night and attack/rape/abduct/murder them.
Whilst men do kill other men it's an entirely different and separate issue to that of female safety.

Palavah · 12/03/2021 08:22

OP, it has widespread support.

Your argument is that we shouldn't complain about men attacking women, because men attack other men too. I dont think the problem is naming the victims, do you?

TheQueensCousin · 12/03/2021 08:23

I know where @Givitarest is coming from though. My DS has been attacked and robbed when walking home at night. He tried to take all precautions of being aware of who was near him, he couldn't have eyes in the back of his head, and needed hospital treatment but was thankfully okay🙏🏼. I worry about my adult DD and DS equally when I know that they're walking home alone at night.
My heart is breaking for the family of Sarah Everard, life will never ever be the same for them. I'm sure that she was sensible and took precautions when walking but sadly she came across this vile man and she never stood a chance ❤️

Mmn654123 · 12/03/2021 08:23

@Givitarest

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too. I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.
What has your husband actively done to reduce male violence against women?
PegasusReturns · 12/03/2021 08:24

I run. I run 5 times a week. Every time I run I think about rape. Sometimes for a few seconds, sometimes for longer.

I am increasingly alert when I hear someone come up behind me; I give a wide berth to a particular deserted corner of the park; my heart rate quickens if a car pulls alongside me; I risk assess every man that runs towards me: how old, how big, how fit; I wonder if I’m too far away from other people for them to hear me scream.

These are fleeting thoughts; often barely even conscious. But they occur every time I run. My DH has never thought about being raped on his run.

InconvenientPeg · 12/03/2021 08:25

But it's not the same.

I hadn't appreciated how deep that difference ran til I was in a bar with work mates. Female colleague leaving for the train. I said we needed to walk her to the stations there's a dark bridge to go under which has an eerie feel to it and often groups of people hanging around.

I'm 6'1" so have a slightly different experience to the average woman, I am slightly less vulnerable because of my height and strength (only slightly tho, it's not a free pass still). I would expect to get cat called and maybe physically harassed on that route still.

The guy we were with is about 5'4". Seriously small. He was amazed that we would be intimidated by walking that route, had never experienced any harassment and had never considered it would be an issue.it literally had never crossed his mind.

Imagine being that free. It blew my mind.

VerityWibbleWobble · 12/03/2021 08:25

I bet you can't find one man that has been blamed for being rated or assaulted due to what they're wearing. Go,out in a short skirt or lower cut top? You're looking a bit slutty and you're asking for it...

Does your dh have such worries about being assaulted in the street when he's wearing a pair of shorts?

Pillowcase123 · 12/03/2021 08:27

Who is killing men though OP?

It's not women right?

The problem here is male violence, regardless of who the victim is. The really question is how do we address that?

DanielODonkey · 12/03/2021 08:28

Can We, as a society, not have a conversation about women and women's safety without it turning into "what about men"?

Please. Everyone knows men are at risk of violence too. from men

This conversation that is happening is abkut women's safety and how men can finally finally start taking responsibility for reducing women feeling scared and for taking other men to task for their problematic behaviour. And for men to stop raping and killing full stop.

grapewine · 12/03/2021 08:29

@AmandaHugenkiss

I’ve spoken to many men in my life over the years, and it never crosses their minds not to run on their own in the dark, not to walk home that mile late at night rather than take a taxi, not to take a long walk across isolated moorland on their own. They just can’t grasp what it is to life your life in fear of attack. I don’t think it’s the same thing.
Totally agree.
ripples101 · 12/03/2021 08:29

There will be a backlash to these kind of comments and meme’s. There always is. It is incredibly difficult to find the right balance in order to get the message across. Make it not shocking enough and the message gets diluted. Make it too shocking and the message gets criticised.

Yesterday I went on to some forums where you would expect the majority of users to be men. Namely football forums. The kind of posts I read yesterday from men in regards to this issue was simply shocking. Some even saying that women don’t know the meaning of the word suffering - only men who fought in wars had a right to use that word.

hahaboink · 12/03/2021 08:29

Generally though if men are attacked by other men, the press blame the men who are attacking them and look to solve the problem of knife crime or mugging etc. They don’t blame the men for walking along the street. (Unless they are also in a gang and then the press basically think it’s their own fault). For women, the same act of walking along the street is treated differently. You may educate your sons to be safe but there is not the same pervasive victim blaming as there is for women who get attacked. And I absolutely do not believe that the majority of men have the same experiences - and the same fear - of walking alone, or walking in the dark, or being in a taxi or bus or train on your own - as there majority of women do.

Alsohuman · 12/03/2021 08:30

@Palavah

OP, it has widespread support.

Your argument is that we shouldn't complain about men attacking women, because men attack other men too. I dont think the problem is naming the victims, do you?

Exactly this.
Original poster
Givitarest · 12/03/2021 08:31

@Champagneandmonstermunch

They are not demonising men. Just because men are also victims of male violence, that does not mean it is not a problem.
They are demonising men. The violent actions of a relatively small number of disturbed men (and a much smaller number of women) are a huge problem, but we need to be united if we're going to tackle it, not divided by gender. The current pitch of the campaign is alienating a massive number of people who would otherwise be supportive.
OP posts: