Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

I don't agree there should be a curfew but I think it was still a very valid point. Why should women feel unsafe, we are under our own curfew of fear. I can't tell you how many times I've not done something because my gut has told me it might be dangerous, not because of any people but because a man could easily overpower me.

I saw mention on another thread that a poster was afraid to go running early in the morning, this really resonated with me as I've been avoiding it myself but had never taken to opportunity to think "why?"

Men might seem benign in a social setting, at work, your friends DH. Who knows what they are really thinking when they see a lone woman and are unlikely to be caught.

@HastySlander

I don’t think for a second the curfew was a serious suggestion. It highlights the absurdity of people saying that women should keep themselves safe by staying at home or not walking alone after dark rather than you know, taking the stance that women shouldn’t be a target for merely walking down a busy street at night. It’s totally depressing how little has changed in 40 years since ‘reclaim the night’ in the wake of the Yorkshire Ripper murders, where women were once again told to stay at home to stay safe

This . It's a very clever way to put the blame where it lies , with the perpetrators. It switches focus from the victim's behaviour. It reminds society that it's not women that should modify their behaviour, it's men.

As a society, we're very quick to come up with a million reasons why a woman did something wrong and what she should've done instead, when in reality the sad truth is that unless a woman becomes a complete hermit ,locked in her house there's nothing she can do to keep her entirely safe from abuse,sexual Harassment/assault, rape and even murder from men.

Totally agree with @MAMNIL it’s actually making me feel a bit sick, all men are not psychopaths I have no doubt Sarah’s murder will turn out to be a psychopath.

Baroness Jone’s behaviour is absolutely ridiculous and frankly insulting as it’s clearly self serving attention seeking, trying to derive that attention out of something as horrific as this is diabolical.

Someone mentioned faux feminism on another thread. That’s exactly what this is, if it was a 15 year old socially disadvantaged woman or a 60 year old woman on the fringes of society would it be attracting this particular brand of attention. No it’s a certain section of women who see themselves in Sarah, white, middle class, relatively privileged.

Where were you all when young girls were being groomed and sexually assaulted on a whole scale in Rotherham, Bradford, Rochdale in recent years Mmm yeah thought so.

Ok I don't agree with the principle but just how would you police it?

Who would tackle the men breaking the curfew?

Have you ever had to fight a male? Big or little without skill and training it is nigh on impossible- with training it is still very difficult (and I say this as both a police officer and someone who trains in high intensity combat sport with men)

We would need men to help us police, not all men are abusers, sadly many are. The key to change is education and parenting, raising our children well.

Making the assumption that all men are likely to be a threat to women and need to be locked up at night is divisive and frankly offensive.

Well this is regularly the advice given to women and girls.

Until men come with some sort of infallible sign attached to them so women can tell the bad ones from the rest , ALL men will have to change their behave.

And accepting that - rather than saying women’s ideas are offensive - is a good first step.

@MAMNIL

I also feel very sad for Sarah Everard and am also concerned for the safety of my wife and daughters. Making the assumption that all men are likely to be a threat to women and need to be locked up at night is divisive and frankly offensive.

Wow OP, first post and you get a NAMALT

It is the job of EVERY MAN to prevent rape, attacks and harassment on women. EVERY SINGLE ONE. The culture towards women needs to change and if every man doesn't play their part, it simply won't. Even if they don't actively do anything to women, by being a bystander they are allowing it to happen.

Yes. That's very much the key point of the Daniel Sloss piece posted here (and for which I can't find a direct link):

When one in ten men is shit and the other nine do nothing, we may as well not be there…Instead of having this hero complex like 'I'm going to beat up a rapist'…[just] prevent one, stop one…Were there signs in my friend's behaviour towards women that I ignored? Yes. And then he raped my friend. That's on me until the day I die.

twitter.com/AnnaCollinson/status/1369972777403506689

Women have been attacked during the day, so stupidly asking for curfews would not solve the problem of women being attacked.
The young woman concerned was not actually walking home at a late hour (around 9.00 pm, according to the papers).
I think the real problem is that because of the Lockdown, it is possible that fewer people were out on the streets (Clapham area), than would most likely have been in normal circumstances.
It is also possible that the young woman avoided a taxi, uber, or bus, because she may have felt her visit was against the rules, but that is speculation, and something we will probably not know. (I have no idea whether it was against the rules or not).
However, it is significant that in the Lockdown rules, there is an expectation that anyone could be stopped by the police and asked to clarify their reason for being away from home.
This itself could make a woman more vulnerable; ie they half expect to be stopped, etc
Advising women not to go out alone at night is victim blaming, but it behoves us all to remain vigilant and have 'situational awareness', when we are out.

"Where were you all when young girls were being groomed and sexually assaulted on a whole scale in Rotherham, Bradford, Rochdale in recent years Mmm yeah thought so."

You sound like an angry, confused young man.

The suggestion that a curfew for men is imposed is only to counteract the suggestion that women don’t go out alone after a certain hour and not really one to be taken seriously. I have friends who are frightened to go running alone in the middle of the day...Education IS the answer, but so many boys learn by the horrible sexist, misogynistic attitudes of their fathers, or don’t have any close male role models at all, that it is still so difficult to educate these boys. In addition, I see many girls who have so little self-worth and only care about impressing these horrible boys, because that’s how they’ve seen their mothers behave. Contrastingly, I also see many confident girls and young women who will accept no shit from anyone. Unfortunately, even that may not help them. I genuinely feel real despair and my heart goes out to the family of Sarah Everard.

Sorry @JackieBeaver I popped out to collect DD from school.

The figures I quoted were from a UN Women study that was released yesterday. Article here: www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/10/almost-all-young-women-in-the-uk-have-been-sexually-harassed-survey-finds

Someone mentioned faux feminism on another thread. That’s exactly what this is

So is it faux policing or faux menism when women are told to stay home to keep safe?

@Naunet - Your misandry is very obvious. Do you feel the same about males in your family? Would you also fear a son, or grandson and see them as a potential threat to you, just because they were born male?

@WhereverIlaymyhat2021

Totally agree with *@MAMNIL* it’s actually making me feel a bit sick, all men are not psychopaths I have no doubt Sarah’s murder will turn out to be a psychopath.

Baroness Jone’s behaviour is absolutely ridiculous and frankly insulting as it’s clearly self serving attention seeking, trying to derive that attention out of something as horrific as this is diabolical.

Someone mentioned faux feminism on another thread. That’s exactly what this is, if it was a 15 year old socially disadvantaged woman or a 60 year old woman on the fringes of society would it be attracting this particular brand of attention. No it’s a certain section of women who see themselves in Sarah, white, middle class, relatively privileged.

Where were you all when young girls were being groomed and sexually assaulted on a whole scale in Rotherham, Bradford, Rochdale in recent years Mmm yeah thought so.

Seeing as you're a new poster you'll have not seen the threads on here discussing Rochdale at the time - did you even bother to check before you threw that lie out?

I’m surprised this post hasn’t been taken down, this is a clear contempt at misandry.

@Naunet - Your misandry is very obvious. Do you feel the same about males in your family? Would you also fear a son, or grandson and see them as a potential threat to you, just because they were born male?

Yes you’re absolutely right, I’m clearly a misandrist because I’m sick to death of the Not All Men shit every time women try and talk about male violence against them. Poor menz.

yes if it's not all men then a small group of men are omnipresent time travelling very busy pests.

Yes this is the point - most men do not challenge male violence because it does not affect them. They don't even realise how we feel - I say this as a mum of 2 beautiful DS and one beautiful DD and a lovely DH - DH and eldest DS were shocked when DD and I explained what it is like to run in the park alone as a female - they never even thought about it.

So, NAMALT - so what???

Some people are trying hard to get this thread pulled - imagine feeling threatened about women voicing their concerns and anger at male violence. Got your priorities straight there.

@thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter been on here lots, live near Rochdale never saw that getting the traction this is getting across social media and on here - sorry I just haven’t.

Don't be ridiculous @WhereverIlaymyhat2021

Lots of us are the parent of boys. I have a particularly gorgeous one sneaking a danger nap on my lap right now. Lots of us are also married to men, all of us will be the child of a man. That doesn't mean that you can ignore the stats or reality.

Not all men - makes me see red.
We know it isn't all men

97% of women have experienced some form of abuse, harassment etc at the hands of a man.

97%

So it doesn't fucking matter that is isn't all men. Nearly all women have been treated like shit by a man at some point in their lives.

Something needs to be done about that

97 fucking %

Maybe you should all set up a charity from various funding pots ie lottery for example and give workshops to schools, colleges, universities to promote positive behaviour, healthy relationships, how people treat others etc.
You could arrange march’s, set up a website and really promote and push for women’s safety.
It’s all fair and well having a discussion on a chat forum but I think your energies would be more valuable putting something positive into action.