Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

@MAMNIL

I also feel very sad for Sarah Everard and am also concerned for the safety of my wife and daughters. Making the assumption that all men are likely to be a threat to women and need to be locked up at night is divisive and frankly offensive.

Is it not frankly offensive to think it’s oto expect all women to stay at home when it’s night because otherwise they take the risk of being assaulted though??

Let’s remember, 40% of women have experienced unwanted choking during sex. 40%!
That means roughly, 40% of men have been happy to
1- rape a woman
2- put her in danger (in the name sex, enjoyment wand whatnot. Afterall they can still she wanted that if she dies can’t they? Many men have been acquitted like that)

So is putting a curfew looking reasonable, maybe not.
But god, what would I give to have a clear message to men, ALL MEN, that they are ALL complicit in it. And it has to stop.
Complicit because they don’t stand up to protect women.
Complicit because they dint say anything when some of their counterparts joke around raping a woman, she will like it anyway etc...
And complicit because they still think it’s only a small minority of men who are like this when actually it’s not. Otherwise how can you explain that nearly all women can tell you a story if when they were sexually assaulted, mage to feel extremely uncomfortable, have to change their behaviour to protect themselves. Esp that one because really, which woman even dare going for a walk at 9.30pm? I mean she clearly CHOSE to put herself at risk....

Very powerful - tweet quotes from Sloss video:

Were there signs in my friend's behaviour towards women that I ignored? Yes. And then he raped my friend. That's on me until the day I die.

twitter.com/AnnaCollinson/status/1369972777403506689

The video in that tweet is worth watching - it's a call to action to men to intervene with other men. And for the intervention not to be in the 'hero' role of beating up a rapist but to actually intervene with each other to prevent them. (I can't find a direct link to the Sloss video.)

thing is though the bad men don;t wear tags or flashing lights so we don;t know if the 'good men' are in fact bad men - so until good men (like some of your sons ) start to challenge the bad men in their gang then they share responsibility - and we will continue to be wary of them

MAMNIL - ah yes it was you further up. Please don't be offended at a potential slur against your good senses. Instead absorb what you are being told by women. And develop a sense of perspective.

@Naunet

It's very, very far from all, so please don't bunch the good ones out there with the scum

Nope, it’s not “very, very far from all”. Almost all women in this country have been sexually harassed, that means a fuck load of men are behaving in that way. Sick of this insistence that most men are angels that would never be inappropriate towards a woman, its just another way of shutting women up and denying their experiences.

Actually, I forgot this was mumsnet. I shall lock up my son immediately and bury the husband under the patio before they go out killing women. There is clearly no hope for either of them.

I feel more uneasy going around my daily business with groups of youths hanging around streets than I do with men. We can't lock down all men because there's a few tainted men out there! Women are more likely to attack other women than men

I think talking about a curfew is a symbolic statement. Most of us like men and want to mix socially with them. But its an important statement. Women in South London have been curfew themselves this past week and denied their only freedom. To walk and run safely in their neighbourhood. Some responses to Sarah's disappearance focused on whether she was drunk and that she shouldn't have been walking alone at 9pm in the evening! 9pm!!!

The reason women fear to walk alone at night is because of men. Men are responsible for the vast majority of violent crime - and although more victims on the street are men, 95% of victims in the home are women. And the men who react angrily to the suggestion of a curfew are part of the problem. They have no concept of the privilege they enjoy, the freedoms they have that we never have and the fear and caution we need to deploy.

Women have to be alert and fear the risk posed by all men - even though we know not everyone will be a threat - we really can't take that for granted. Wouldn't it be lovely to have just one night when all women could walk with confidence alone at night? Wouldn't it be lovely not to have to bring up our daughters to only wear one headphone, cross to the other side of the street, stick to well lit and busy roads, walk in the road, or hold your keys in their fist as they walk home? Wouldn't it be lovely if we could bring up the men in our society to recognise their privilege and extend it to us. To not walk right behind us or follow us, or stare at us, cruise past us slowly in their cars, spike our drinks.....

@LowlandLucky The police are constantly trying to impose curfews on women. They did so when there were ridiculously high rape counts on a university campus, told female student not to leave their houses after 9 pm. And they have done so just this week in the wake of Sarah Everard's death: www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/sarah-everard-missing-women-clapham-19992681

The point trying to be made by saying men should be given a curfew is that women need to stop being made responsible for the violence that men carry out on us. Whenever a woman is raped or murdered women are given instructions on how they need to alter their behaviour or minimise their participation in civil society in order to avoid male violence. The responsibility never lies with men, it is always ours to bare.

I'm really angry at the comments from some men since this has been discussed. Yes, some are trying to be supportive (more words than action though, almost certainly). Others can't let a single comment from a woman stand without responding NAMALT/men get attacked too/this is sexism/it's a fear that outweighs the reality, blah, blah, blah.

Just fuck off the lot of you You and your male privilege are the fucking problem and you are doing nothing but prove women right.

I don't think the majority of men - even the 'good' ones - waste any time worrying about what life is like for females.

Let’s not start taring all males with the same brush!
Not all males are a threat to females. I often walk in secluded areas and see men out walking, jogging etc and I’ve never felt unsafe.
I certainly don’t want young boys growing up with a stigma attached to their gender.

I'm raising three sons (no daughters). I'd like to think I'm doing a good enough job in teaching them how to treat a woman correctly and not make her fear for her life at the mere sight of them.

And also, controversial but go with me.

Men benefit from women being scared. Even the good ones.

How many times have the good ones pointed out they have walked a woman to their car to 'keep them safe'. Picked them up from a night out to 'keep them safe'. Done something nice to keep a woman safe?

Doing these things makes them feel good. They feel good being the 'protector'.

It is a shame they let go some of the things they hear their fellow man doing or saying to kept women safe.
Easier to feel good from keeping a woman safe than actual challenge the men around them.

II don't want to need protecting.

@Savethewhales

I feel more uneasy going around my daily business with groups of youths hanging around streets than I do with men. We can't lock down all men because there's a few tainted men out there! Women are more likely to attack other women than men

Where can I find these figures that show women are more likely to attack other women than men?

What happened is awful and we need a change in attitude, not infringements on men’s liberty. The curfew is ridiculous. I’m surprised a Green Party member, baroness or otherwise is sticking up for women. Has she been ousted yet?

poor young boys - sorry but I have 3 girls - I know statistically what lies ahead of them at the hands of men - so I don;t really care about sparing mens feelings or boys - to protect women - sorry

Most women are attacked at home. So locking up men in the home would make a lot of women more unsafe than they are currently.

and if you raise your boys properly they should understand women's fears rather then being all offended by them

Curfews on men FFS that is outrageous, can you imagine the outcry if it was demanded all women should be indoors by 6p.m ?

Yeah just imagine....oh wait, we don’t have to because ITS HAPPENED.

@MAMNIL

I also feel very sad for Sarah Everard and am also concerned for the safety of my wife and daughters. Making the assumption that all men are likely to be a threat to women and need to be locked up at night is divisive and frankly offensive.

NAMALT are like in the very first post

kareningalasmith.com/2021/02/08/2021/?fbclid=IwAR1TUGh9NgQ2RtStm28xOFc8_7U1amnQqweaGYkVQYQiCvy35zHD0SzLfWQ

30 IDENTIFIED women killed by men so far in 2021 - it's MARCH

@ghostyslovesheets

YANBU - I'm am 51 and I am so fucking fed up of this shit - I marched to reclaim the night in the 80's, 90's - I worked for Rape Crisis and Refuge as a volunteer - I am so fucking sick of male violence and nothing changing.

If you are a man who as EVER let a mate off with a sexist comment or sat quietly and not challenged shitty male behaviour you ARE the problem - FFS in 2021 why do so many men still feel they have the right to comment on women's looks (random women out running for example), police their behaviour, beat them, rape them, kill them, financially abuse them, pay them less, - I'm so fed up of this shit

Absolutely this.

It's funny how so many men claim that they would never be friends with another man who would harass a woman and yet 97% of 18-24 year old women (and 80% of women of ALL AGES) have reported being sexually harassed/assaulted. So either women are lying, or there are a small handful of really prolific misogynists OR most men just turn a blind eye, they don't consider groping a woman's bum at the bar or shouting "cheer up love" at a woman walking alone down the street harassment.

It's the low level harassment that escalates into serious assaults, rapes and murders. It's the knowing that they can do/say these things unchallenged, or often egged on, by their friends. I'd say very few murderers just suddenly one day decide out of the blue to kill someone, there will have been an escalation of behaviour over a period of time - the fact that the police officer currently being questioned has also been arrested on suspicion of indecent exposure speaks volumes.

Id like to see Cressida Dick re assess the operational priorities of her police force so they dont send six officers to interview someone over a tweet or chase two women for walking and talking at the same time ..( I exaggerate but not by much )..use the resources to hand to provide a visible presence .

@ghostyslovesheets

kareningalasmith.com/2021/02/08/2021/?fbclid=IwAR1TUGh9NgQ2RtStm28xOFc8_7U1amnQqweaGYkVQYQiCvy35zHD0SzLfWQ

30 IDENTIFIED women killed by men so far in 2021 - it's MARCH

Thanks for linking this site I was trying to find the link and hoping someone would post it

Where are the stats showing that more women are attacked by women than men? I would also posit that I am less fraud of getting beaten up by a woman than I am being raped and/or murdered by a man.

What's that old saying? Men are afraid women are going to laugh at them, women are afraid men are going to kill them.

Good thread. I heard Jess Phillips talking about this at lunch time and it strikes me that there are two issues here. One is quite casual sexual harassment of women and girls which seems to have become more prevalent. I literally once chased a van driver down the road who beeped his horn and said something leery about my then 14 year old daughter and I would like us to get to a point where this kind of harassment is a police matter. I do not support a curfew for men (which is a bit silly), but I am one of a number of women who travel usually alone for business. Generally I do not come out of my room in an evening because business hotels can be full of men who in groups can be wholly inappropriate and as woman I feel uncomfortable and retreat. Why should we need to do this? if our daughters still need to do this we have failed. Second point is that most violence is conducted by people we know. This is husbands partners and in some cases fathers and brothers. We need a clear framework for supporting victims (most support is voluntary and underfunded), and for being clear to women that they have rights and support in leaving abusive relationships. Perpetrators need to know that they will receive long custodial sentences along with counselling and support to prevent reoffending.