Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

What posters need to understand is that it's not personal. It's not about you, or your sons,husbands whatever. It's not about "my Nigel". It's not about men being "evil".

It's about men as a class. It's about male violence, which is also a threat to your sons and husbands.It'sut male privilege.

This.

And even if "not all men" are violent or abusive, ALL men benefit from a social structure in which women as a sex class are kept constrained because of the systemic threat of male violence, and the ways in which our police & law systems are set up to protect men as a sex class from the consequences of their behaviour.

I think Baroness Green is trying to highlight the ridiculous notion that women should change their behaviour to keep themselves safe, rather than society should look at ways to improve things.

The problem with this kind of discussion is it brooks no argument or nuance.

Any counter argument is dismissed as ‘whataboutery’ or misogyny, whereas it may actually add context or nuance.

A lot of bullying, sexual or otherwise, is about power imbalance, so physical violence will mainly be pursued by men. Take the men away, however (eg in a women’s prison) and you will see plenty of female on female violence.

In addition, in the workplace women are equally bad given the power; look at Priti Patel for instance.

You will never ‘solve’ the problem of dysfunctional human beings, either male or female, except by giving lots of power to the state. I would not want to live in that type of dystopia.

If progress is to be made, the good things about masculinity as well as the bad need to be considered.

I think Baroness Green is trying to highlight the ridiculous notion that women should change their behaviour to keep themselves safe, rather than society should look at ways to improve things

But who does she consider as being a woman

If progress is to be made, the good things about masculinity as well as the bad need to be considered.

So what are these then?

If progress is to be made, the good things about masculinity as well as the bad need to be considered.

Ermm.. we are considering the good thing? In fact we are counting on it. That's why we want men , the good men to stand up and change things. Because they can. Because there are good things they can do.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

If progress is to be made, the good things about masculinity as well as the bad need to be considered.

Ermm.. we are considering the good thing? In fact we are counting on it. That's why we want men , the good men to stand up and change things. Because they can. Because there are good things they can do.

The question I'm asking is, what are the good things about masculinity? I recognise that there is a small handful of decent males, but it seems to me that that is despite any masculine traits, not because of them.

@thedancingbear

The question I'm asking is, what are the good things about masculinity?

Are you for real?

This is actually about us,about women.everything doesn’t need to be about men @thedancingbear

@thedancingbear is this some backhanded way to get me to list positive things about men? On a thread about women's suffering and even death at the hand of men? On a thread about male violence?

If you need validation mate, post on Facebook.

[quote AccidentallyOnPurpose]@thedancingbear is this some backhanded way to get me to list positive things about men? On a thread about women's suffering and even death at the hand of men? On a thread about male violence?

If you need validation mate, post on Facebook.[/quote]
You've completely misunderstood me. Posters above are suggesting we need to harness the good elements of masculinity. I'm suggesting there aren't any, really. I can't see why you're attacking me.

It seems to me that masculinity as a concept is fundamentally toxic, and we need to discard or completely re-shape it if we are to make progress.

The shortsightedness of women on here saying NAMALT. We know that. I know my husband wouldn't hurt a woman out in the street. I also know he is 6ft 4 big guy who could scare a woman out walking.

I, and he, knows that a stranger to him wouldn't be able to tell whether he was okay or not just by looking at him.

This doesn't hurt his feelings. Because he knows it isn't about him.

@thedancingbear

I feel sorry for you that your life experiences have led you to believe that there is nothing good about masculinity. Perhaps you think femininity is the baseline for all goodness in the world.

What a shame for you.

You've completely misunderstood me. Posters above are suggesting we need to harness the good elements of masculinity. I'm suggesting there aren't any, really. I can't see why you're attacking me

I think it must be a misunderstanding, i cant see you’ve said anything wrong

@picklemewalnuts

There should be an annual night, like 'reclaim the night', where men voluntarily curfew and women get a night out less constrained by the presence of men.

The decent men who'd never scare or manhandle a woman can demonstrate their decency by supportively staying home. Anyone still out is an arsehole (work excepted).

THIS. I'm annoyed at all the "ooh, how very offensive and disgusting to point out that a lot of men are misogynist and violent". Well, they bloody ARE. Get over it and start supporting women's safety, not pandering to the poor male fee fees.

^There should be an annual night, like 'reclaim the night', where men voluntarily curfew and women get a night out less constrained by the presence of men.

The decent men who'd never scare or manhandle a woman can demonstrate their decency by supportively staying home. Anyone still out is an arsehole (work excepted).^

This is a great idea and I would support it wholeheartedly. When 'decent' men ask - what can I do? - well, here's one idea to start with.

@thedancingbear

^There should be an annual night, like 'reclaim the night', where men voluntarily curfew and women get a night out less constrained by the presence of men.

The decent men who'd never scare or manhandle a woman can demonstrate their decency by supportively staying home. Anyone still out is an arsehole (work excepted).^

This is a great idea and I would support it wholeheartedly. When 'decent' men ask - what can I do? - well, here's one idea to start with.

I don't like this idea. It sets up the idea that women get one free night a year and men get the other 364. Once a week would work better. It has to genuinely inconvenience their every day life in the way it inconveniences ours before they actually understand what we face and help change.

Though what changes would make women feel safer at night? Clearly no longer a greater police presence on the streets.

It is an interesting time to have this debate as in England at the moment no one is allowed out day or night expect for a very limited number of reasons and where it is essential. I would rather we worked on abolishing the CV19 laws which stop our rights and freedoms first than do what is in effect a gender swap of sharia law.

Countries have put curfews on people due to the risk of covid. So why can't the same principle be put on men due to the risks they pose?

Rapists and murderers look just like every other man.

do what is in effect a gender swap of sharia law.
Rest easy, @Xenia. That will never ever happen in any country. Men are in power and won't tolerate a nominal day of it, let alone a regular system.

It's interesting that the suggestion of male curfew, which to me seemed obviously a trick to raise awareness not a genuine idea, has met with such vigorous disapproval. But women feel we can't go out at night, that if we run alone before dawn or after dark we are signalling that we are easy prey. The notion of a curfew is simply to flag to men how limiting this is.

I would be happy for there to be a national database of men's dna if that helped as a deterrent and prevented some crime against women. I know it wouldn't solve all the issues but I would be happy to support that if it prevented some deaths of women

@MyNameIsArthur

I would be happy for there to be a national database of men's dna if that helped as a deterrent and prevented some crime against women. I know it wouldn't solve all the issues but I would be happy to support that if it prevented some deaths of women

I think the problem with this is that I wouldn't trust the police for a second with this information.

Look at what has happened with Sarah Everard. Whatever their role in the events that led to her death, they have confounded these by assaulting women at a vigil for her death.

The police hate women. They are not to be trusted.

We don’t need a database of male dna, we need systemic,institutional,and social change

The shocking images of Women being out in prone position and handcuffed at a vigil is really awful and unnecessary. The police took an oppositional position by surrounding the bandstand, it was physically and psychologically confrontational. Police could have operationally taken a light touch, maintained a distance and the women would have dispersed. They chose to trample over flowers, surround bandstand and it descended into a melee.

“ The police hate women. They are not to be trusted.”

@thedancingbear this is bullshit and you know it is. Take your childish stereotypes elsewhere

Labobo, "Once a week would work better. It has to genuinely inconvenience their every day life in the way it inconveniences ours before they actually understand what we face and help change."

Once a week is a good idea. They could have Fridays and then be curfewed on Saturdays, or the other way around. Women probably wouldn't go out on Fridays at all, while men would be at home on Sats. Seems fair to me