Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

Your point being?

I would hazard a guess that the point is that we should be encouraging both men and women to be sensible and safe at night, because you can't get rid of that risk to anyone. It's a separate issue to the very important issue of fighting misogyny.

I think it’s clear she is not actually suggesting a curfew be implemented. Just making a point about how the focus shouldn’t be on what the victim did or didn’t do (and by extension what women should and shouldn’t do), but on the perpetrator and how it shouldn’t be women who have to change their behaviour.

I don’t hate all men but I will never get into another relationship or date again because I am very wary of, and don’t really trust, men. The reason I, and many other woman, are like this and may have “issues” is because of previous experiences and treatment from men. There’s always jokes about “oh she’s a psycho, she’s needy, she’s this, she’s that....“...but 9 times out 10 MEN made them like that by treating them so badly in the first place.

I know not all men treat women like crap but most of them still stand by and watch, and don’t stand up to other men they know and see doing it. It’s not enough to say “I’m not like that. Don’t tar me”. You accept the standard you walk past.

Very offensive to suggest all men need to be on a curfew to keep women safe

I’m FAR more offended by the rate at which men murder, rape and sexually assault women, rather than some suggestion made on Twitter (which by the way, is pretty much the same suggestion that has been thrown around about women for many, many years).

@TheOtherMaryBerry

Your point being?

I would hazard a guess that the point is that we should be encouraging both men and women to be sensible and safe at night, because you can't get rid of that risk to anyone. It's a separate issue to the very important issue of fighting misogyny.

But utterly missing the point it is male violence.

Oh ffs always the Not All Men - while I don't think a curfew is at all a sensible suggestion - I think it can be used as an attention point. So fecking what if men are offended? I am past offended, I am furious at the lack of change and constant need to aknowledge 'not all men' in case they are offended. Let's offend them! Then the ones that see themselves as decent can actually take some responsibility and change the attitude that allows concepts like a rape schedule exist. If I can be told not be out alone in the dark, to be aware that if something awful did happen my history, clothing, alcohol consumption, mere presence in the world can be questioned then why can't I 'offend' men?

I have a son-to-be teen daughter - I do not want to teach her not to get attacked, I want the parents of sons to teach their sons to be decent human beings. I want the male sense of entitlement to lay their hands where they are not wanted to be a thing of the past, I want the kind of behaviour and socialisation that leads to rape culture to be a thing of the past. I want women to be treated as people, it's not an insane wish. So yeah, All Men. Offend away.

It's weird that it's not offensive to tell women to stay in to avoid getting raped and killed by men but it's offensive to suggest men should stay in to stop raping and killing women.

But of course, women are most at risk from the men inside their home.

I would go with your annual event @picklemewalnuts - that would be amazing.

The curfew suggestion is ridiculous, these men would just do this during the day instead.

It’s not a serious suggestion but is making the point that women have a curfew inflicted on them by men and no one cares.
During lockdown I wasn’t able to go for a walk after dark because my husband worried it wasn’t safe. Why isn’t it safe? Because of men.
I’ve been followed twice in my life, and had men expose themselves to me twice as well. Add in inappropriate comments of men that are pretty commonplace as a teenager and young woman.
Amongst my friends several have been sexually assaulted.
Not all men are like that but enough are. And the ones that aren’t should be shouting about how unacceptable it is that the message is women aren’t safe after dark and if they go out after dark and meet with harm - well, what did they expect. It’s not safe.
We talk about it as thought it were some unavoidable natural force of nature. It’s not safe because of men, no other reason.

I agree what happened to her and has happened and will happen to others is horrible and something needs to be done but I am, as everyone else, at a loss regarding what we can possibly do to end it.

We cannot lock up all men though, that is an insane and just a really horrible suggestion.
This isn't all men. It's very, very far from all, so please don't bunch the good ones out there with the scum.
It is heart breaking that some want all men to suffer for the disgusting actions of some. It is not the way.

I don't think she was serious. But making a very valid point that you could say that the only women will feel safe on the streets is if men aren't there. 🤷

It's very, very far from all, so please don't bunch the good ones out there with the scum

Nope, it’s not “very, very far from all”. Almost all women in this country have been sexually harassed, that means a fuck load of men are behaving in that way. Sick of this insistence that most men are angels that would never be inappropriate towards a woman, its just another way of shutting women up and denying their experiences.

The tweet wasn’t to be taken literally, it was in response to advice from the police that women should not go out alone after dark (so, in effect, being under curfew). She was making a (valid) point - not suggesting that a curfew should actually be imposed.

YANBU - I'm am 51 and I am so fucking fed up of this shit - I marched to reclaim the night in the 80's, 90's - I worked for Rape Crisis and Refuge as a volunteer - I am so fucking sick of male violence and nothing changing.

If you are a man who as EVER let a mate off with a sexist comment or sat quietly and not challenged shitty male behaviour you ARE the problem - FFS in 2021 why do so many men still feel they have the right to comment on women's looks (random women out running for example), police their behaviour, beat them, rape them, kill them, financially abuse them, pay them less, - I'm so fed up of this shit

@Naunet

It's very, very far from all, so please don't bunch the good ones out there with the scum

Nope, it’s not “very, very far from all”. Almost all women in this country have been sexually harassed, that means a fuck load of men are behaving in that way. Sick of this insistence that most men are angels that would never be inappropriate towards a woman, its just another way of shutting women up and denying their experiences.

yes if it's not all men then a small group of men are omnipresent time travelling very busy pests.

Well said @Katiepoes.

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo

Men have effectively imposed a curfew on women so why cant one be imposed back. Its mens collective behaviour that has created this issue, not womens, why should we suffer. Perhaps if there were actual consequences for their behaviour change might occur. Education and the opportunity to do better has all failed, its not going to suddenly work now.

^ This.

Curfews on men FFS that is outrageous, can you imagine the outcry if it was demanded all women should be indoors by 6p.m ? Christ some people just open their mouths and spew out crap.

@ComtesseDeSpair

I’d assume she’s not making a serious proposal, but highlighting that when women go missing, media and society tends to focus on them and their behaviour rather than that of the men who hurt them. I’ve already seen, elsewhere, the victim-blaming comments about “she should have taken a taxi not walked in the dark” or “it said she’d had wine with her friend, perhaps that made her less wary” - or this year’s favourite, “well, what was she even doing, going out for no essential reason and meeting a friend, there’s a pandemic on, don’t you know.”

This. It's like the American politician who proposed mandatory vasectomies - she wasn't actually hoping to create a law that forced all males to get vasectomies, she was making a point about how absurd and offensive it is that male politicians have the power to control and limit women's reproductive rights.

I also agree with the PP's saying that men have effectively imposed curfews on women for centuries - whenever anything happens to us outside of the home the blame is always put on us for being outside, for drinking, for engaging with a man, for being alone, etc.

@LowlandLucky

Curfews on men FFS that is outrageous, can you imagine the outcry if it was demanded all women should be indoors by 6p.m ? Christ some people just open their mouths and spew out crap.

please please tell me that's an attempt at irony?

Male here - don't mind 'being offended' by the need to be 'wary' and extremely careful around any man. We shouldn't be taking it personally.

Otherwise we are asking women to play Schroedinger's Attacker, every bloody time.

Seen some men on twitter complaining about being called out for "not all men"......I have invited them to get over themselves.

@dottiedodah

Whowantstoknow. I would be very upset to live in a world where "every man we pass is a "bad one"!Yes of course there are attacks on women ,which is completely unacceptable .However my Son /DH friends who are male /very respectful of women ,do not all deserve to be tarred by one solitary brush.Also isnt it a known fact that most women are targeted by someone they know? In this case a PC appears to have committed this heinous crime ,so should we take all of the male police off the streets at night then?!

You're upset at the thought that every man you pass is a bad one. Fine. I didn't say it was an enjoyable thought. I said it is safer to behave as if every man you pass is a bad one. (And yeah, it's safer to understand that the men you know can be just as dangerous. Not a happy thought, but true)

Your husband and sons don't deserve to be tarred with that brush. Sarah Everand didn't deserve to be abducted and killed and essentially blamed for it. I didn't deserve to be hit or kicked by men. Or to have men pull over and wave their dicks at me on several occasions, Or try to get me into their car.

The word "deserve" means precisely fuck all in this world.

What we have is a situation where a whole lot of men are dangerous to women and each other.

@LowlandLucky

Curfews on men FFS that is outrageous, can you imagine the outcry if it was demanded all women should be indoors by 6p.m ? Christ some people just open their mouths and spew out crap.

This already exists.

“Women, don’t go out alone after dark. It’s not safe.”

Yes, because of men.

The curfew is basically making the point that this is how many women feel and how would you like it if you felt you had to be in after 6pm or risk being attacked.

@LowlandLucky so is it okay to suggest women don't go out after dark? Don't go out alone? Look over their shoulder at all times? Don't wear skimpy clothing? Don't get too drunk?

This will of course never happen to men but the outcry when in fact women are already under curfew!