Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

When men feel trapped or uncomfortable they act-it stems from the hunter-gatherer mindset and the ambivalence that fostered over millennia

That’s why they mostly use men in wars-because if a man feels threatened and therefore more uncomfortable he is more likely to use the gun faster because he won’t question and reason through his ambivalence quite as much. The hunter-gatherer mindset to which men have been accustomed to over millennia. I’m not talking about defence -that is something entirely different and a woman also has strong defence mechanisms. Guns are bad obviously.

@ghostyslovesheets

thing is though the bad men don;t wear tags or flashing lights so we don;t know if the 'good men' are in fact bad men - so until good men (like some of your sons ) start to challenge the bad men in their gang then they share responsibility - and we will continue to be wary of them

How on earth are the good men in this particular bad mans circle going to even know he's a bad man?

Most good men I know wouldn't give the time of day to a bad man. They don't want the hassle of being tarred with the same brush.

A lot of bad men are enabled by others who want to 'save' someone. How many times have you heard ..."my son isn't bad, just misunderstood, he's special", "don't cry, man up, men stand up and fight". Or the " well he's got 7 kids with four different women but he's promised to me I'm the one and I believe him" to the even darker "oh he didn't mean to hit me, it was my fault, he told me to shut up and I kept going on and on"

From birth men need to stop:
Being told they are mummy's little soldier
To grow a pair
To hit them back twice as hard
Being allowed to become slobs usually by parents or WAGs who for some reason see themselves as subservient to him.

Once this subconscious push to make all men think they are here to exercise muscle stops and that they are enabled to have what they want when they want with no responsibility, we might just start to get somewhere.

Yes you have something important here. Men have historically been attackers in the hunter-gatherer mindset over millennia and women have historically been the ones protecting and defending while they were out hunting-gathering. The advent of ‘modern’ society and the overarching implicated differences and uncomfortableness that this makes men feel has made the issue unbalanced and will take time to catch up. So yes-women learn martial arts and how to defend yourself because men won’t learn to change that fast!

You are correct-it is mostly subconscious-patterns established and replicated over millennia -the hunter gatherer mindset to which the family unit including women who may also be subconsciously attuned whether we like it or not

@MagentaZebras
Sorry to hear that I have also been terrified of men

@OhamIreally
The truth is men may feel threatened by women because of their own differences and they get jealous of them because women are more geared up for ‘modern’ life especially these days of stay at home etc and when they feel trapped or uncomfortable they may act not on reason but on impulse and the less feelings one has for other people the more one will want to be the winner. The male ego. That is why they don’t change easily

@MAMNIL
Out of interest,
Who do you think has the greater ego-orientation, generally women or men?

@FleurPower123
Yes volatility occurs due to the ambivalence in the male mind during times of feeling uncomfortable or trapped. Thus, men in this state of mind may contradict themselves a lot. If a man contradicts himself a lot one should be wary.

@joystir59
Interested you hear your opinions on
Love and hate and how they relate to
Egotism and altruism in the male mind?

No matter how much is talked about the fact that women should be able to be safe at any time the problem is that there are a few evil, devious characters out there looking for opportunities to attack women. In the case talked about if the suspect is guilty then he has been manipulative and devious to such a degree that he may well have done this before. Of course these days cameras help but years ago if you were out and about there were always policemen patrolling the streets. In fact that was what I was always told “if you have a problem ask a policeman”. The awful thing is that in this particular case the suspect is a policeman. However, this is unusual to say the least and most men will defend women and will endeavour to ensure their safety.

Another thought on the madness of a 6pm curfew.

When all men in society are all shut in their homes at 6 o'clock except for the deviant ones who don't pay any mind to the law (they molest, rape, and murder women so why the fuck would they heed a curfew?), who's going to come to your aid when you're attacked?

A woman out wandering dark winter streets at 6pm who is attacked won't have any hope of screaming for help when all the men are locked away.

Some are saying "not all men but still too many men". Well, more men are good than bad and I want them on side if I'm ever in that situation.

@toolatetofixate

Another thought on the madness of a 6pm curfew.

When all men in society are all shut in their homes at 6 o'clock except for the deviant ones who don't pay any mind to the law (they molest, rape, and murder women so why the fuck would they heed a curfew?), who's going to come to your aid when you're attacked?

A woman out wandering dark winter streets at 6pm who is attacked won't have any hope of screaming for help when all the men are locked away.

Some are saying "not all men but still too many men". Well, more men are good than bad and I want them on side if I'm ever in that situation.

I think you need to read the thread.

No sane person is actually proposing that this is something that would happen. It is a suggestion meant to start discussion - to make the points that

(i) many women already feel like there is a de facto curfew against them, and

(ii) it is men's behaviour that needs to change, and not women's.

@thedancingbear

I'm participating in said discussion.

"Men's" behaviour doesn't need to change. Criminal men's behaviour needs to change. Except it won't, they are criminal and they are deviant by nature and they are the exception to the rule. The vast majority of men have nothing to change.

I've been subject to male harassment and violence. I've also been scared for my life and had police involvement because of a woman. That was one of the worst times in my life. I've cried my heart out at the torment of women from school age onwards. When I think of the things that have hurt me most in life there are both men and women on the list.

There is a bell curve of human behaviour and men occupy the extreme ends of many things- violence, autism, genius...

I don't find it helpful to spout nonsense about curfews for men whether or not it's a thought experiment. I could play the thought experiment of having a law to limit the number of women who can work together in one setting, because I have much experience of women being absolute bullying bitches in the workplace. Women are often capable of utterly destroying each other. Is this a helpful suggestion?

@Thecatonthemat
Is that because mysogynists have such big egos that they don’t feel that they can love or hate so don’t recognise that they are haters?

@toolatetofixate

*@thedancingbear*

I'm participating in said discussion.

"Men's" behaviour doesn't need to change. Criminal men's behaviour needs to change. Except it won't, they are criminal and they are deviant by nature and they are the exception to the rule. The vast majority of men have nothing to change.

I've been subject to male harassment and violence. I've also been scared for my life and had police involvement because of a woman. That was one of the worst times in my life. I've cried my heart out at the torment of women from school age onwards. When I think of the things that have hurt me most in life there are both men and women on the list.

There is a bell curve of human behaviour and men occupy the extreme ends of many things- violence, autism, genius...

I don't find it helpful to spout nonsense about curfews for men whether or not it's a thought experiment. I could play the thought experiment of having a law to limit the number of women who can work together in one setting, because I have much experience of women being absolute bullying bitches in the workplace. Women are often capable of utterly destroying each other. Is this a helpful suggestion?

The problem is that the behaviour which enables those criminals is not a criminal act in and of itself. The misogynistic comments, the leering, the “making a pass” at someone. None of those are illegal. None of those make a man a criminal. But what they do is enable others to think that it is acceptable because no one calls them out on it. It escalates and the sense of entitlement that men feel to make those comments or behave in that way grows until eventually for some men it turns into a criminal act- rape, assault, murder.... Because no one ever told them that they were being a dick and to stop. If you ONLY deal with the criminals you are intervening much to late.

Make misogyny a hate crime. Force those men who are behaving in such a manner on a regular basis to be prosecuted, to sign the sex offenders register. Make them face up to the fact that women are not their property or a plaything BEFORE it gets to the point of rape, assault or murder. Then the good men of this world- and the women to whom they are not a threat- are free to go about their business knowing that those who are a threat are already being identified.

How would a curfew on men work. Men can identify as women and vice versa. It is completely unworkable.

As for Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men this is the most ridiculous statement of all time.

Didn’t the Green Party vote at one of their conferences to not include biological females in the party’s list of oppressed groups.

@toolatetofixate

*@thedancingbear*

I'm participating in said discussion.

"Men's" behaviour doesn't need to change. Criminal men's behaviour needs to change. Except it won't, they are criminal and they are deviant by nature and they are the exception to the rule. The vast majority of men have nothing to change.

I've been subject to male harassment and violence. I've also been scared for my life and had police involvement because of a woman. That was one of the worst times in my life. I've cried my heart out at the torment of women from school age onwards. When I think of the things that have hurt me most in life there are both men and women on the list.

There is a bell curve of human behaviour and men occupy the extreme ends of many things- violence, autism, genius...

I don't find it helpful to spout nonsense about curfews for men whether or not it's a thought experiment. I could play the thought experiment of having a law to limit the number of women who can work together in one setting, because I have much experience of women being absolute bullying bitches in the workplace. Women are often capable of utterly destroying each other. Is this a helpful suggestion?

Men's other behaviours absolutely need to change ,not just criminal ones.

Once you add in being a useless partner/father, watching porn, financial/physical/mental/emotional /sexual abusers, "banter", wolf whistling, cat calling, unwanted touch/attention/comments, sexist jokes,rape jokes and all the other behaviours do you really end up with a vast majority of good men? Is it really just a tiny minority of deviants left?

Because we can't ignore the "small" stuff. All those things add up and we end up with a society that views women less than, there to serve the men in whatever way they want. We end up with too many men thinking women owe them their time,their attention,their work,their bodies.

And all that paves the way for "deviants".

AccidentallyOnPurpose

Attacking women on the street is universally seen as wrong already. Nobody doing it thinks they are behaving acceptably, they are bad men who don't care whether it is right or wrong.

I agree changing the things you mentioned could reduce domestic violence including murders but not random attacks.

It's the same with paedophilia which is almost exclusively a male crime too. Men doing it haven't got the impression that it is socially acceptable. It's about as socially unacceptable as it could be yet they still do it.

I suspect most single straight women prefer men out and about after 6pm! Single sex bars would not be a lot of fun.

It might be a thought experiment, but it’s a ludicrous one. Same as putting all dogs down because some bite.

Social media leads to these hysterical reactions to rare events.

So many in here saying Covid ‘not very dangerous’ when it has killed greater than 100,000 And made many more very sick, but a handful of female deaths due to men make men very dangerous...

Actually, Phoenix, I'm not sure about that. Many of us want to socialise, with our friends, without being hit on. It's quite hard to discourage, at times.

but a handful of female deaths due to men make men very dangerous...

It’s not just the deaths though, is it?
It’s also the rapes, sexual assaults and sexual harassment.

There's a thread running now about a 17 yearold girl that was afraid to go back to her work placement as a result of some MAN's sense of entitlement. How is this okay? This disgusting person probably thinks he's 'one of the good guys' as he'd never dream of actually attacking a woman. But oh yeah, NAMALT.

I say it again about the curfew - it' not a serious proposal, it's a way of bringing this conversation up again, but hopefully making ALL men see that they too need to take some bloody responsibility. Not just for the unspeakable actions of the few that attack women on the street, but for the creeps in offices that make colleagues uncomfortable, for the catcallers that make schoolgirls hunch their shoulders to hide their breasts, for the 'thought you'd like some company' apes in business suits that keep us hiding in hotel rooms when travelling for work, for the gross brothers-in-law that stare down your top, the so-called best friend that allows his hands that little bit too low when forcing a hug on you...too many to list.

@Winebottle

AccidentallyOnPurpose

Attacking women on the street is universally seen as wrong already. Nobody doing it thinks they are behaving acceptably, they are bad men who don't care whether it is right or wrong.

I agree changing the things you mentioned could reduce domestic violence including murders but not random attacks.

It's the same with paedophilia which is almost exclusively a male crime too. Men doing it haven't got the impression that it is socially acceptable. It's about as socially unacceptable as it could be yet they still do it.

Well I want to see it done first. I want to see action. Then we can debate whether it had an effect or not on stranger crime too.

As you say, it will definitely change to the better in regards to other crimes and aggression towards women, so we've got nothing to lose but plenty to gain.

But that's not going to happen when even the idea of men doing something,changing something,anything no matter how small is met with "it's too hard", "it's impossible ", "it's too dangerous ", "it will never work".

We haven't even tried.

As for Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men this is the most ridiculous statement of all time

Indeed.

It's a great example of why good politicians realise that making glib, flippant, or tongue-in-cheek statements in a political setting is never a good idea, as there will always be morons who take them out of context, or too literally, and turn it into a huge bunfight that only distracts from the actual issue at hand.