Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

These percentages, on how many women asked are they based?

By sexual harassment, is that akin to a wolf whistle or physical?

Has anyone found the survey that shows this 97% percent figure? The Guardian article I read says it was a Yougov survey, but the closest thing I can find on the Yougov website is this: yougov.co.uk/topics/relationships/articles-reports/2021/03/08/eurotrack-two-thirds-women-sweden-and-half-britain

and that says only 52% of GB women said they had ever been sexually harassed.

It’s so terrible. So many people suffer and so much could be prevented

Not sure-They did not interview or ask all of the women so how do they know how many?
The point is even if one person is suffering because of violence that is too much

@Clunt

So sorry.. I have to draw attention to this www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9352913/JANET-STREET-PORTER-murder-Sarah-Everard-no-reason-demonise-half-population.html Comments disabled.. I wonder why I’m so disappointed

Comments are usually disabled when a trial is going to ensue

Sobering reading from Karen Smith. Absolutely dispicable.

I was so terrified so many times, especially as a young woman. My plan is to enroll my daughter in self defence and martial arts at a young age so that she can floor and knock out any man who makes her feel threatened when older. I think that is the only way we reclaim public space: we learn to defend ourselves. My experience of it all would have been so very different with self confidence and the knowledge that I could take 99% of men down to the concrete if needed. I wish it didn't have to be like that, but for now I feel the best way to protect her is to ensure she becomes a black belt.

@Clunt

Over 30 years ago I was sexually abused by a stranger.. I was ten years old. The police questions seemed to be blaming my clothing, my parents ... the school response was to organise self defence classes for all female pupils whilst all the boys got to play outside all day.. I thought then this was back to front! Nothing has changed and I am furious and frustrated that the message to girls and women is still to be safe, be aware, don’t walk alone after dark etc etc... this bullshit needs to stop

That's disgusting I'm so sorry to read this

@ghostyslovesheets

Please explain in simple terms what you want ME to do about this problem

is this the question - because - and I saw the other response - is that not obvious?

also it's not my problem to solve - my sex is not the issue - yours is - you lot need to sort it

when women needed refuge - women got together, raised money, raised awareness, found buildings - set up refuges

when women needed support around rape and sexual violence - women set up rape crisis centres - staffed them , staffed the phone lines, chased the funding, volunteered their time and energy

Maybe men should take a leaf from our books

They won't because they don't give a crap because they don't see it as their problem

@HollowTalk

The most dangerous place for a woman is her own home. U

Only if she chooses to share her home with an adult male, who is not her son. Disaggregate the data and analyse it properly. There are ways to solve this, to refuse to accept it any more, on a societal level.

I am so pissed off with it all now. The misogyny, the abuse. Over years and years it grinds us all down. We have to stand together and say NO MORE. Stop living with abusive men. Stop having relationships with them at all. They can be incels, whatever, who cares? We need to demand at the ballot box that women are equally represented not just in terms of the number of MPs but the women running businesses as executive directors, that women are deciding policy and making operational decisions in all walks of life that matter - education, healthcare, business, foreign policy, tax, all of it, If all women stood together and voted for the Women's Equality Party or similiar at the next election this shit would stop. They're not perfect but a million times better than this dystopian nightmare we are living in.

I agree it shouldn't happen at all and we should all feel safe and shouldn't have to fight for this but it is happening and we do have to fight. Men have had hundreds of years to sort this out and mysteriously have not chosen to do so. They will not now. WE have to. We have to stand together and do it please so this stops, finally, and our daughters can be safe.

@sausagerollcake

Men are more likely to be murdered by a stranger in the street than women, significantly more likely.

Women are mostly likely to be murdered in intimate partner homicide.

Yes it’s like being afraid of dying in a plane crash when the real risk is the car crash.

But like plane crashes, stranger rape and murder is just more scary 😞

I think curfew is a ridiculous idea. Many businesses (pubs/restaurants etc) would likely close down if half of the population suddenly can't go out in the evening.

Also, women are most at risk in their own home, so how would locking them up with their potential abuser help? Men who usually go down the pub or gym to let off steam would be cooped up with their partner and feeling even more volatile.

@nanny2012nanny

For a man to attack anyone they have to be mentally unwell. The mental health system in our country needs a review

Why do you believe that only mentally ill men would attack anyone?

It's not motivated by illness, it's motivated by entitlement. Like someone who is angry and feels that their feelings justify punching someone. Or a feeling of entitlement to women's bodies, women's attention, women's obedience. And the knowledge that they can do it because they're bigger and stronger and nothing bad will happen to them as a result.

Comedian Hannah Gadsby gets it so right in her speech on 'good Men' and misogyny:

Also like the idea of girls and women being trained in carrying and using guns and shooting any fucker who messes with her.

@ilovepuggies

Maybe you should all set up a charity from various funding pots ie lottery for example and give workshops to schools, colleges, universities to promote positive behaviour, healthy relationships, how people treat others etc. You could arrange march’s, set up a website and really promote and push for women’s safety. It’s all fair and well having a discussion on a chat forum but I think your energies would be more valuable putting something positive into action.

This is a great idea. I would love to see men join together to promote women's safety. Marching and educating boys in schools, really explaining how Male violence is not acceptable. Yes I can see how men campaigning this way would make a real difference.

Meanwhile women’s support services are being defunded in favour of mixed facilities. Violence to women is being endorsed in the managed area of Holbeck in Leeds. Women are no longer a priority in services and funding. Porn is driving behaviour by men towards women and it is starting at an early age.While more women are kept in poverty they will be more dependent on men. What has been remarkable this week is the exposure of just how much women are putting up with. It is men we know who are doing these things. It is up to men to prove that they as a group will choose not to harrass abuse assault rape and murder , because that is what they are choosing to do right now.

A thought I had last night, and before I get jumped on I’m not seriously advocating this:

For a 24 hour period give every woman over 18 (I know we all experience harassment assault before the age of 18 too) a spray bottle of the un washable ink they use in banks. Every time they feel harassed by a man give them a small squirt of the ink. After the 24 hour period we’ll round up all the men who have spray on them and then we’ll see just how widespread the problem is. I think an awful lot of people will be surprised by just how many men have been tagged.

It’s not about demonising men by the way (usual disclaimer, I have a father, brother, husband, son etc, I’m not a man hater) but demonstrating the sheer amount of “low level” harassment that goes on and if ignored can lead to escalations into physical abuse and yes, murder.

The fact that the suspect in Sarah’s case had not been properly investigated for indecent exposure just days before she disappeared says it all - its only flashing, not a “real” crime to be bothered with.

I agree and I also think that the root cause of mysogyny in a man feeling inadequate and maybe jealous of the woman. The systemic nature of this inequality and disproportionate violence issue begs the question of how misogyny started and is perpetuated and therefore we will find out how we can stop it. Firstly, there is the gender language barrier in that men may not understand language (or feelings) the same or be able to communicate in the same way as women. Secondly, emotionally charged issues and events such as staying at home too much may bring men closer to their ambivalent feelings and then they get confused, don’t think straight, get anxious and uncomfortable because they find it difficult to choose between two conflicting feelings -then they feel like they want to protect themselves but feel trapped and so then do something they may later regret (or not as the case may be). Some men do not regret their bad actions even after the event. Such people are almost or completely without feeling for other humans surely.
Of course, murder on the streets is much more complicated in its psychology.

Do posters on this thread have male partners/sons?

If you have only daughters how would you have felt if you had a son.

People saying ban porn, many women watch porn too (I don’t so wouldn’t miss it if it was banned) but I assume if it was banned there would be many female posters on here complaining.

How many times do we see on here the phrase ‘boys will be boys’. I have a son and hate that phrase and call it out when it is used to explain behaviour but many others don’t. Both parents need to stop accepting this phrase.

Most parents who have sons bring them up to respect women, but what also needs to be done is to teach them to call out wrong behaviour of their mates. Male partners need to do the same, they need to model that behaviour of not accepting their mates not respecting women.

How many women have husbands who don’t respect them in the home (and I’m not talking sexually) but just generally, refusing to do their fair share of housework, childcare? That needs to change too.It should not be accepted.

My son is too young to set up home yet but if I or DH saw him acting like that with a partner in the future we need to call him out on it.

Men in the workplace need to call out bad behaviour, again this needs to be instilled in our sons. Not engaging in it is not enough, they need to call it out.

The same in their social life.

Schools need to do more, and start early.

I would also like a register for men who have committed domestic violence.

"Oh ffs always the Not All Men - while I don't think a curfew is at all a sensible suggestion - I think it can be used as an attention point. So fecking what if men are offended? I am past offended, I am furious at the lack of change and constant need to aknowledge 'not all men' in case they are offended. Let's offend them! Then the ones that see themselves as decent can actually take some responsibility and change the attitude that allows concepts like a rape schedule exist. If I can be told not be out alone in the dark, to be aware that if something awful did happen my history, clothing, alcohol consumption, mere presence in the world can be questioned then why can't I 'offend' men?

I have a son-to-be teen daughter - I do not want to teach her not to get attacked, I want the parents of sons to teach their sons to be decent human beings. I want the male sense of entitlement to lay their hands where they are not wanted to be a thing of the past, I want the kind of behaviour and socialisation that leads to rape culture to be a thing of the past. I want women to be treated as people, it's not an insane wish. So yeah, All Men. Offend away"

@Katiepoes 👏👏

It's not just women feeling unsafe. It's children, adolescents, men, older people. Parks up and down the land are almost universally no go areas after dark due to crime, cramped housing estates and quiet roads are no better. I don't know why people are shocked.
Where are the police? I'll tell you, they are on deserted beaches looking to fine mr&mrs average for going for a walk, or they are busy catching motorists for doing 1mph over the speed limit. Get burgled or assaulted and you'll never see a single one of them.
I want to see police patrols, on the streets after dark, uk wide as standard as a very minimum. I want to see changes in police HR policy so anyone aiding and abetting any officer of any rank will also face the same allegations and be tried accordingly.

I want so see Cressida Dick take full responsibility for these police failures and resign.

Yes the issue of mysogyny is systemic-so many men.
Of course, men don’t generally really think that they are better than women it’s just they get jealous of them and they want to protect themselves and their egos (this may be so important for a man), then, if they feel they can’t protect their ego then they may get anxious and uncomfortable and then their ambivalence and confusion causes them to act. Their action is probably not based on reason at that point unless they have previously planned it which some men do of course but that’s a bit different because it’s more like psychopaths if they’ve planned it.
So spraying men with ink in certain instances would probably involve a huge amount of men.

And now in Scotland there is a new law defining hate crime. Women are not included .

@joystir59

Also like the idea of girls and women being trained in carrying and using guns and shooting any fucker who messes with her.

Seriously? You want handguns to be legal in this country after all the hard work of the parents from Dunblane to rid us of them?