Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

I thought the whole idea is that we need to stop and think, and articulate why men dominate and terrorise women and girls. Women showing anger is totally appropriate. To continue to ignore is not good for us. Culture, tradition, media, religion all support their superiority and centers them, so it's hard to see the wood from the trees.

You wouldn’t.
So what’s your solution? All men off the streets?

Firstly to stop denying we have a problem with male violence by saying not saying NAMALT every time it is discussed. Instead of shrugging shoulders and saying 'boys will be boys' and victim blaming we/society need to accept and recognise this is a major problem. But we can even get that far nevermind trying to educate people.

Solution? You listen without interruption NAMALT. You actively think & reflect
Think about how this is a male issue,male privilege and you’re contributing by your knee jerk defence
Conscious and unconscious male privilege how it permeates to men and women
Men are potential threats, solution oft suggested women moderate their behaviour or action. Errr no! Men should moderate their behaviour

All men who rape and murder off the streets would be a start.
99% of rapists are walking around.
A man just got 5 years for strangling his wife to death. He got leniency because he was stressed about money.
Men who kill women and use rough sex defence.
Men who make and distribute images of child abuse.
The sentences are too short.
These men are walking around.
On the streets. Day and night.
Amongst us and our children.
Get the rapists murderers and nonces off the streets first.
Then start sweeping up the flashers, gropers, con men, wife beaters.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter

There is sure as hell a problem with violence from some men. I have no idea what NAMALT means. Boys will be boys is not something I will tolerate.

My father was a vicious bastard who sexually assaulted and beat my mother on a regular basis, in front of his children, beat my brother and sexually assaulted me. I’m 56 and I haven’t seen him for 46 years.

For that reason, the men in my life are not violent. I do not see my brother because he is violent and I want him nowhere near my daughter (from the day she was born, 26 years ago). My husband is an intelligent, non violent human being and my son has been brought up to be the same.

Please don’t patronise me.

@MAMNIL

I also feel very sad for Sarah Everard and am also concerned for the safety of my wife and daughters. Making the assumption that all men are likely to be a threat to women and need to be locked up at night is divisive and frankly offensive.

How do we know you aren't a rapist, wife beater, child abuser or murderer?

Because you tell us you're not like the other men? Well, that's strange - they tell us the same.

Because you're offended? So are they.

We can never know for sure. Because as 4 women a week find out (it's doubled over lockdown) as they are murdered, even the ones who claim to love us aren't always telling the truth.

@DenisetheMenace

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter

There is sure as hell a problem with violence from some men. I have no idea what NAMALT means. Boys will be boys is not something I will tolerate.

My father was a vicious bastard who sexually assaulted and beat my mother on a regular basis, in front of his children, beat my brother and sexually assaulted me. I’m 56 and I haven’t seen him for 46 years.

For that reason, the men in my life are not violent. I do not see my brother because he is violent and I want him nowhere near my daughter (from the day she was born, 26 years ago). My husband is an intelligent, non violent human being and my son has been brought up to be the same.

Please don’t patronise me.

I'm not being funny but when have I patronised you? I answered your question in good faith, NAMALT means 'not all men are like that'.

@DenisetheMenace no I won’t fuck off. Really have a think why this is a major issue
Why is your knee jerk reaction to close down uncomfortable conversation
We need to explore,reflect.unpick what centuries of misogyny and male privilege looks like
How do institutions and systems habitually reinforce and support privilege

You are patronising me by dismissing my “lived experience” which seems to be somehow less valid than that of other ouster’s because it doesn’t fit with your one-track narrative.

The first ten years of my life were a living hell because of a violent, sadistic, male bastard.

The men I have chosen to let into my life/raised since are the polar opposite of that precisely because of that experience. They are good people.

Why are you unable to accept that some men are good and do not deserve to be viewed with suspicion by association?

I know both are true because that is my experience.

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

I don’t need to have a think. I lived it, did you?

I’ve moved on and learned that male does not equal evil.

@DenisetheMenace

You are patronising me by dismissing my “lived experience” which seems to be somehow less valid than that of other ouster’s because it doesn’t fit with your one-track narrative.

The first ten years of my life were a living hell because of a violent, sadistic, male bastard.

The men I have chosen to let into my life/raised since are the polar opposite of that precisely because of that experience. They are good people.

Why are you unable to accept that some men are good and do not deserve to be viewed with suspicion by association?

I know both are true because that is my experience.

Ok, again where have I dismissed your lived experience? I have not. You know your husband and son are good people, I and other women who don't know them do not. Seeing as men are responsible for over 90% of violent crimes I cannot afford to trust men because statistics and my own experiences and experiences of other women tells me that if my trust is misplaced and I get it wrong the outcomes are severely dire for me. Stop taking this as a personal attack on the men in your life.

Bring back the stocks.

@DenisetheMenace

You are patronising me by dismissing my “lived experience” which seems to be somehow less valid than that of other ouster’s because it doesn’t fit with your one-track narrative.

The first ten years of my life were a living hell because of a violent, sadistic, male bastard.

The men I have chosen to let into my life/raised since are the polar opposite of that precisely because of that experience. They are good people.

Why are you unable to accept that some men are good and do not deserve to be viewed with suspicion by association?

I know both are true because that is my experience.

Agreed.

Listen to my "lived experience" (fucking hate that phrase) but your lived experience can fuck off as it doesn't play to my agenda.

I've had a similar experience to you @DenisetheMenace I've had my share of male harassment, abuse and violence. I still loudly proclaim "not all men."

This thread is insane. I was an abused child who lived in terror in a home with a violent father, a battered, abused mother and an battered brother who was left forever damaged.

Four decades later, I have a kind and gentle husband, an equally kind and gentle son and kind and gentle daughter. By design. But because my personal experience doesn’t fit in with the evil men narrative, I’m being called out by people who have probably have no personal experience of the degrading life my mother, my brother and I lived.

So,please don’t tell me to fuck off for discussing what you & I know to be a significant problem. Male privilege.
Yea buts and minutiae are deflections that close down and deny women
You see the not my boys it is minimising of a irrefutable theme
It’s not necessary to leap to their defence. Frankly they’re enabled by a whole system

Thanks for respecting our 'lived experience'. Sorry to say it but your father wasn't, isn't and won't be the only violent man out of there. Forgive us if we don't want to take a risk trusting those men but they sadly don't come with a tattoo on their foreheads saying "I'm a violent arsehole. Beware".

My DH really is a thoroughly gentle and kind man and not an arsehole at all. He’s a lovely husband and father. But he wouldn’t be in the least threatened by this thread, because he knows that there are a lot of men who are violent towards women. He knows about my ‘lived experience’ as a victim of childhood SA at the hands of my F and others. He also knows that my DSis’s ex was violent to her.

He feels no need to be defensive because it isn’t about him. I believe the same is true about my BIL (my DSis’s lovely second DH), who knows what she’s been through, both as a child and then during her first marriage.

I find that decent men don’t take it as a personal criticism when we talk about male violence. Because they know that they’re not like that and that we’re not talking about them.

"Why are you unable to accept that some men are good and do not deserve to be viewed with suspicion by association?"
We all know some men are good.
We know them.
Other women who come across them wont know they're good.
Dont be angry with women for viewing your good sons with suspicion when she doesnt know he's good.
Blame all the bastard men she met before that coloured her view and made her wary.
We dont know the difference between good and bad men until we know, and even then we get it wrong sometimes.

I find that decent men don’t take it as a personal criticism when we talk about male violence. Because they know that they’re not like that and that we’re not talking about them

Absolutely, spot on.

For a brief time don’t let preoccupation with male ego & sensibilities derail a discussion about women.
We live in a society,culture & system that favour and maintain male privilege
When trying to discuss how I feel about hearing about a violent crime perpetrated by a man I really don’t need to be told to fuck off. Or to pipe down because your men,son aren’t like that

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

I apologise for swearing at you last night.

What posters need to understand is that it's not personal. It's not about you, or your sons,husbands whatever. It's not about "my Nigel". It's not about men being "evil".

It's about men as a class. It's about male violence, which is also a threat to your sons and husbands.It's about male privilege.

Taking it personally and responding to anything like it's a personal attack on your one husband/son/whatever is derailing at best and shutting down discussion at worst.

I understand this provokes a strong reaction,it’s essentially looking at the adaptation and accommodation we make to keep ourselves safe. How we have learnt and are adept at the low level rebuttals, we are often actually have to be polite or measured in or responses to men when they’re creeping us out because we don’t want it to escalate
The you alright darlin conversations
We answer yes I’m fine and close it down
Every fibre of me wants to say get out my personal space, and I’m nobody darlin
Often though I don’t...because I’m socialised to, because I don’t want it to escalate,etc

Women get adept at dynamic risk assessment we can scan a room, read a situation and know who’s the guys to watch out for. We know because we have all been there

@DenisetheMenace. Apology accepted. I get this is difficult topic. It isn’t a direct accusation on your men but yes it’s a lens on men. Their male privilege their entitlement and how consciously and unconsciously that’s
Reinforced by society,by men and women

I wonder if male groups are having these discussions ie on dadsnet.

My Nigel is a lovely safe fella but even he has to throw in the NAMALT everytime. It kills a discussion because we know that. We know that most men are nice. But men as a group cause 4 deaths a week of women. Something has to change.