BIL owes us £7k. Should we take him to court?

[cally8019]

Backstory

Me and DH have been together 25 years, married for 20 in the summer. We have 4 DC- 22,18, 11 and 9 and twins due in May.

I have never got on with my mother and father in law- DH has had brief, informal contact with them with the DC but I haven’t seen my MIL for nearly 18 years.

Completely different story with BIL- he cut of his parents (they are very controlling and narcissistic- DH and BIL have an elder sister who was very clearly the favourite for a long time and I have never even met her) and me and him have always got on really well and he was a great support to us with the children growing up, starting our businesses etc. If he babysat or did a days work for us- we would always pay him even if he insisted we didn’t.

Anyway....fast forward to 6 months pre lockdown. BIL separated from his long term partner and came to me and DH for a loan of 10k. Keep in mind this was a week after me receiving a sizeable inheritance and a house from my grandmother. We move him into the house (rent free on the premise utilities etc would be his responsibility) and gave him the loan to get a solicitor to help fight for shared custody of his children.

So naturally it is 18 months later- and we have received 3 grand back, despite assurances he would pay us back within the year. We have a son we are financially supporting at university, 2 in private education and we have literally virtually ZERO income at the moment as both our businesses while they can function in lockdown we aren’t getting the clientele. We are literally living off my grandmothers inheritance which will run out in about 4 months time.

He has been working, has money to splash about on expensive toys for his DC (he spent at least 2k on them at Christmas), isn’t paying rent (thanks to us) and is walking around in designer clothes. Don’t get me wrong we aren’t going without and neither are our children- but he is taking the piss. Then last week- booked a fucking holiday to Disney world “because my babies have missed so much this past year” for Christmas time. Not being funny but the price of that holiday could of paid us off!

When we text/ring it’s constant excuses I’m not working (he is according to his Facebook business page), it will be next month yada yada. We can’t physically go round obviously and it is 200 miles away that he is now living.

DH won’t talk about it. He wants to just “leave it” when he can’t fucking see we are going to be up shit creek very soon and this money would at least buy us 2/3 months!!!

"How do I evict a tenant without a tenancy agreement UK?
Eviction: If there is no written contract, a landlord cannot evict a tenant through the 'accelerated' no-fault eviction process, which is also called a Section 21 notice. Instead, they may have to use the much longer and more expensive Section 8 notice and go through the courts."

This is why I suggested Op get some proper advice. They can't use a Section 21 notice.

Op - as mentioned earlier - do you have a Gas Safety Certificate for the property? Don't ignore this. If your BIL decided to cause you trouble that would be an easy way to do it.

I think your OH is failing you. I fully understand it’s difficult as it’s family but his brother is taking the piss. Pandemic or not I would be driving the 200 miles and sorting it out.

You are allowed to travel for business. In my mind a £7,000 debt is your business

I doubt your grandmother gave you her house so your bil could live there, and wanted her life's savings wasted. I would be telling dh he deals with it or the marriage is dead. It's such a massive sign of disrespect I'm not sure how you can even look at him.

Your DH should be embarrassed that his brother is leaching off you and be on his case about the loan and moving out. Tell him to sort it immediately.

Terrible email - separate his holiday and gifts etc he’s bought for Xmas - it’s totally irrelevant really

You just need facts - he owes you x amount and it needs to be paid by x date - you also now need the house back by whatever date

If this is not paid/he hasn’t moved out you will be taking legal action

On a drier rate note though - you clearly can’t afford to keep a second house and have kids at private schools!! You really need to sort your financial troubles out - even getting this money back leaves you in a bad position! You’ve spent your inheritance on living which is just awful and you insist on keeping the second house

You either rent the house out or sell it! You can’t just have it sitting there empty & your reasons for keeping it are sentimental

I loved my grans house, was devastated when we had to sell it - I love that house, gave 32 years of memories there etc etc - but I couldn’t afford it so it got sold - it’s kinda tough shit tbh

What happens when he just deletes the email and ignores you?

Yes take him to court brother in law if he is messing you about and its obvious he has no real intention of paying you back in reasonable time.

I don't know how much debt he owes you,

But if its certain significant amount threshold check the small claim court uk website to see how to go about this

Or

Seek sound good advice from Citzens Advice bureau agency uk, they often have offices in most towns or cities

Their contact tel details are online or with your local council hub place.

Make sure you put a read receipt on the email & also send a copy with a delivery receipt, the postman can zap it as he delivers it & doesn't need a signature.

Write him a strongly worded "letter before action" with court papers (unsigned) enclosed. That should help concentrate his attention.

The rental market is tough at the minute you could charge slightly above odds with thorough checks and still fill within six weeks, remove him and give him a deadline to pay or you will be going to court

@stablefeet

"How do I evict a tenant without a tenancy agreement UK? Eviction: If there is no written contract, a landlord cannot evict a tenant through the 'accelerated' no-fault eviction process, which is also called a Section 21 notice. Instead, they may have to use the much longer and more expensive Section 8 notice and go through the courts."

This is why I suggested Op get some proper advice. They can't use a Section 21 notice.

I'm not a lawyer, but I thought this kind of arrangement was an excluded occupier rather than a tenant. See here, the bit about living in rent-free accommodation.

england.shelter.org.uk/legal/security_of_tenure/basic_protectionexcluded_occupiers/who_is_an_excluded_occupier

Also from shelter:

"You're usually entitled to reasonable notice before you can be made to leave but your landlord won't need a court order if you're an excluded occupier.

What's reasonable will depend on the situation and why you've been asked to leave.

You can only be evicted peaceably. For example, by changing the locks while you're out. It's a criminal offence for a landlord to:
harass you in your home
use or threaten violence to evict you"

Maybe Covid has changed things.

Take out the reference to the xmas gifts and holiday. This is nothing to do with it (although I know it feels like it)

Also why do you want a zoom call? If you're insistent on it, simply tell him you'll ring on x day, at x time and if he doesn't answer then you'll be forced to take the legal route

I'd cut that email down to a few paragraphs at most.

Dear x

I'm writing to you as I've I've been unsuccessful in talking to you on the phone.

As you're aware we lent you x amount on x day, on the agreement you'd pay the full amount back within a year. This time has now passed and, although you've paid x amount, x is still remaining. Please arrange to return x amount, by x day. If the monies aren't forthcoming we will be taking legal advice on how to recover the remainder.

And I suggest you find somewhere else to live you sponging bellend

Regards

Just tell him that the house is being sold

Btw- I know that your dh wants to maintain a relationship with his brother and I understand why, but him keeping on the good side of his brother is at your expense

Everyone is right, that’s a terrible email.

The one @harknesswitch posted is perfect

Did you get a response OP @cally8019?