BIL owes us £7k. Should we take him to court?

[cally8019]

Backstory

Me and DH have been together 25 years, married for 20 in the summer. We have 4 DC- 22,18, 11 and 9 and twins due in May.

I have never got on with my mother and father in law- DH has had brief, informal contact with them with the DC but I haven’t seen my MIL for nearly 18 years.

Completely different story with BIL- he cut of his parents (they are very controlling and narcissistic- DH and BIL have an elder sister who was very clearly the favourite for a long time and I have never even met her) and me and him have always got on really well and he was a great support to us with the children growing up, starting our businesses etc. If he babysat or did a days work for us- we would always pay him even if he insisted we didn’t.

Anyway....fast forward to 6 months pre lockdown. BIL separated from his long term partner and came to me and DH for a loan of 10k. Keep in mind this was a week after me receiving a sizeable inheritance and a house from my grandmother. We move him into the house (rent free on the premise utilities etc would be his responsibility) and gave him the loan to get a solicitor to help fight for shared custody of his children.

So naturally it is 18 months later- and we have received 3 grand back, despite assurances he would pay us back within the year. We have a son we are financially supporting at university, 2 in private education and we have literally virtually ZERO income at the moment as both our businesses while they can function in lockdown we aren’t getting the clientele. We are literally living off my grandmothers inheritance which will run out in about 4 months time.

He has been working, has money to splash about on expensive toys for his DC (he spent at least 2k on them at Christmas), isn’t paying rent (thanks to us) and is walking around in designer clothes. Don’t get me wrong we aren’t going without and neither are our children- but he is taking the piss. Then last week- booked a fucking holiday to Disney world “because my babies have missed so much this past year” for Christmas time. Not being funny but the price of that holiday could of paid us off!

When we text/ring it’s constant excuses I’m not working (he is according to his Facebook business page), it will be next month yada yada. We can’t physically go round obviously and it is 200 miles away that he is now living.

DH won’t talk about it. He wants to just “leave it” when he can’t fucking see we are going to be up shit creek very soon and this money would at least buy us 2/3 months!!!

@cally8019

Really appreciate the advice so far!

Obviously when we first loaned him the money/let him live in the house it was pre pandemic so no official terms were agreed- plus, I didn't think he would take the piss like this. I genuinely am shocked he has done this.

The issue we now have with asking him to leave- I wouldn't now put it pass him being malicious and then us having to fork out money for repairs. And even if he doesn't do that- we will have to pay for the council tax etc and for someone to keep an eye on the place (would be necessary- it would be turned into a squat otherwise) until we find a decent renter because we are 200 miles away. That is more expense we just don't need nor can afford.

Tell him, in person and in writing, that he MUST vacate the house by Saturday. If he’s still there then you will report him to the police. Get in contact with a solicitor ASAP.

He knows he can take advantage of your kindness. You need to grow a backbone and seek legal advice. He needs to be out of the house this week and you need to draw up a repayment plan. You might have to get the bailiffs/enforcement officers involved.

You have to decide the lesser of the evils.

I would be upfront with him, explain the debt needs to be repaid, explain you need the cash. Is the house solely yours now? Give him the choice between prioritising repaying the debt or starting to pay close to market rent. If he does neither evict and take home to court, warn him of these sanctions.

Leave your DH out of it. Emphasise that you have to have the debt repaid or income from the property and will take legal action if forced. Be prepared to follow through.

This is your house, not your dh’s. You call the shots. I’d try giving him a month to leave. He will really burn his bridges if he doesn’t go, won’t he? I’m not sure you can legally get him out though without going through eviction. But you need to get him out sooner rather than later otherwise he will be legally able to claim a stake in the house.... or all the house.

He’s lying to you and either doesn’t care if you’re financially ruined or perhaps and hopefully he doesn’t realise how tenuous your situation is right now.

I presume you have filed decent tax returns. You need to have been earning 25k to get a btl mortgage. But as you have a business, this will be on 2019/20 tax year and the year prior. Can you not evict him and get a btl mortgage? This seems like the most obvious solution.

You’re living an unsustainable lifestyle. If you want to keep the kids in private school you’re going to have to sell the other house. Or you’re going to have to accept a lifestyle change (state school, uni student finds themself). The 7k he owes you won’t go far.

I think I might be in the minority here but it seems to me from your first paragraph that you’ve always got on well with BIL and giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he doesn’t realise how much financial pressure you are under and maybe your husband wants to ‘leave it’ because he’s too proud to admit that things are tough.

I don’t think this needs to be confrontational, or lead to you all falling out, I think you need to be more assertive and specific about the money and the house situation and slightly more honest about your own predicament without being embarrassed.

I’d be factual - due to the pandemic your income has dropped significantly, you were happy to help him out originally but circumstances have changed and given that the loan is overdue, you expect repayment by a specific date, or at least set a phased repayment profile (I personally wouldn’t mention court yet - only if he doesn’t start making payments). In terms of the house, due to the current circumstances and the fact that it’s 200 miles away I’d seriously consider selling it - maybe offer it to him first (is that at all realistic), otherwise note that you will need to sell/rent it out.

Put it all in writing and agree specific amounts at a set time, and your plans about selling or renting out the house. Don’t go in all guns blazing, but be clear that the current situation is no longer possible due to your change in circumstances. I’m sure he knows he’s on to a good thing, but he might not realise just what the impact on you is - I hope things get better for you soon

How about you arrange for a handful of estate agents to come round to do a valuation and ask BIL to let them in etc, explaining you're having to sell due to lack of funds to see if this doesn't nudge him in the right direction?

If there's no tenancy agreement and he hasn't paid rent, you could just change the locks. He's played you like a fiddle, and putting a rent agreement in place now with the covid restrictions on eviction would probably mean he'd be flaky about paying rent, safe in the knowledge you cannot legally kick him out.
We are in a similar situation with a relative in an inherited house of ours, and we are going to have to sell the house from under them, as he's been taking the piss for three years now.

there is so much value in having family you can rely on
true, but this man is a cheating thieving scumbag...he aint a 'solid reliable always have you back' bloke!
He's an 'in like a rat up a drainpipe when he smells money' guy

An honest conversation with BIL needs to be had

Tell him ALL the options:

-you sue him for the £7k

• you evict him to sell the house
• he pays you £1.5k per month as ‘rent’ until the £7k is paid off - or he leaves the house and you’ll sue him.

If he takes the rent option, it’s on the proviso that the rent is paid every month. If he doesn’t, he leaves the house and you sue him for the remainder

Tell him that you know he’s lying, that you don’t think a fucking holiday to Florida is acceptable when you’re letting your brother and his family down

Next you speak to the school and explain the issues and see if you can get a bursary for this year or spread payments out - you will not be the only one struggling. There is no shame in asking and the school won’t want to lose a pupil over a few months of choppy water

@oil0W0lio Fair point I was actually thinking that after pressing “Post”

That said, I would give it the benefit of the doubt.

I have a close family member I have broken ties with for behaving very badly towards me and my parents - but I still wish I could have found a more amicable way to cut him out of my life

If you don't want to rent, sell the house and buy one closer to home.

Ring him yourself and tell him you need all the cash this month and that he will need to take a loan as you’re in difficult financial position

@Brunt0n

You’re living an unsustainable lifestyle. If you want to keep the kids in private school you’re going to have to sell the other house. Or you’re going to have to accept a lifestyle change (state school, uni student finds themself). The 7k he owes you won’t go far.

This ^

Regardless of the money BiL owes you you're in the shit, by the sound of things.

Obviously that in no way affects the fact that your DH needs to sort his brother out, quick sharp, and get the £7k in your bank.

He's taking the piss. Evict him and get some paying tenants in. Tell DH to talk to his brother about repaying all the loan asap.

I wonder if BIL has some leverage over the DH that OP isnt aware of?

You're no better than your husband to be honest. Both of you are burying your heads in the sand. You've got a kid in private school and no income. Even with the 7k, you are unlikely to be able to afford the fees for much longer with no income.

Kick him out, sell the house and sue him for the money. He owes you it and he's a cheeky fucker for paying for a holiday when he owed that amount of money.

You need to be realistic here. Its just a house. Sell it.

You are asking if you should take him to court

And you DH doesn’t want to mention it again.

OP - this needs to be your focus in the short term. Seriously.

£7k? Prep school terms fees.. £5995. For one child.
Secondary? Add on minimum 40%

* - I wouldn't now put it pass him being malicious and then us having to fork out money for repairs*

Bloody hell. The relationship really has gone to shit if you think this

@Dacquoise

If no rent is being paid for the use of the house, then no tenancy has been created and court proceedings aren't necessary to get him out. You can simply ask him to leave.

Not necessarily. He could say there was a verbal agreement and without proof from the OP to dispute this, it would be up to a judge to decide.

Police won't get involved as it's a civil matter so the quickest route would be to change the locks. He'd have to complain to the council but they may tell him he has no case once they find out what's happened. But if they side with him, it will be much harder.

You need to be much, much clearer with your BIL, honestly. He clearly knows you and your DH will try your best to not fall out over this and may mutter about wanting the money back but won't actually do anything to make that happen.

I'd get BIL on a Zoom meeting and be quite tough. Say unless you've had at least half of the outstanding amount back by month's end you're going to have to evict him from the house. Sorry, but that's that. Then actually do it!

I can understand that it might be a slight pain to rent the house out, but it's honestly the best leverage you have here. Not to mention a decent income stream that it sounds like you really need!

Has anyone asked him WTF he was doing getting the holiday when he owes you money? That seems to be the starting point.

In any event, tell him exactly how dire your financial situation is, that you desperately need him to pay the money back, and that you also need him to start paying rent at normal rates.

* Tell him, in person and in writing, that he MUST vacate the house by Saturday. If he’s still there then you will report him to the police. Get in contact with a solicitor ASAP.*

Some of the shite advice on mumsnet never ceases to amaze me

I have to agree if no signed contract I doubt legal action would get you far . You didn’t draw up any repayment plan just a vague will pay it back .
I’d just be blunt and say that you really will be up shit creek if he doesn’t start paying the money back pronto . Tell him if he doesn’t then you may have to sell the house he’s living in . He’s saved a fortune on rent so unless he’s not working but booked a holiday to Disney is very cf I agree .
Perhaps he doesn’t believe that you really need the money back so soon I don’t know .
You definitely need to ask him properly by phone then follow up on email .

You need a frank conversation about repaying the money. You need to tell him you're in dire straits and his failure to pay back the loan is jeopardising your family.