BIL owes us £7k. Should we take him to court?

[cally8019]

Backstory

Me and DH have been together 25 years, married for 20 in the summer. We have 4 DC- 22,18, 11 and 9 and twins due in May.

I have never got on with my mother and father in law- DH has had brief, informal contact with them with the DC but I haven’t seen my MIL for nearly 18 years.

Completely different story with BIL- he cut of his parents (they are very controlling and narcissistic- DH and BIL have an elder sister who was very clearly the favourite for a long time and I have never even met her) and me and him have always got on really well and he was a great support to us with the children growing up, starting our businesses etc. If he babysat or did a days work for us- we would always pay him even if he insisted we didn’t.

Anyway....fast forward to 6 months pre lockdown. BIL separated from his long term partner and came to me and DH for a loan of 10k. Keep in mind this was a week after me receiving a sizeable inheritance and a house from my grandmother. We move him into the house (rent free on the premise utilities etc would be his responsibility) and gave him the loan to get a solicitor to help fight for shared custody of his children.

So naturally it is 18 months later- and we have received 3 grand back, despite assurances he would pay us back within the year. We have a son we are financially supporting at university, 2 in private education and we have literally virtually ZERO income at the moment as both our businesses while they can function in lockdown we aren’t getting the clientele. We are literally living off my grandmothers inheritance which will run out in about 4 months time.

He has been working, has money to splash about on expensive toys for his DC (he spent at least 2k on them at Christmas), isn’t paying rent (thanks to us) and is walking around in designer clothes. Don’t get me wrong we aren’t going without and neither are our children- but he is taking the piss. Then last week- booked a fucking holiday to Disney world “because my babies have missed so much this past year” for Christmas time. Not being funny but the price of that holiday could of paid us off!

When we text/ring it’s constant excuses I’m not working (he is according to his Facebook business page), it will be next month yada yada. We can’t physically go round obviously and it is 200 miles away that he is now living.

DH won’t talk about it. He wants to just “leave it” when he can’t fucking see we are going to be up shit creek very soon and this money would at least buy us 2/3 months!!!

Get the house vacant, up to scratch and then rent it out properly. He could be trashing it for all you know.

I would tell him that you need the money urgently and you will take legal action if he doesn't start repaying now.

You don’t have a written loan agreement or a tenancy agreement? Is that right? Facebook messages don’t count. If no agreement- you can kiss goodbye to the money and you will have a very difficult road ahead evicting him.

You say causing strife between your husband and his brother will ruin your relationship, and clearly there's no way taking your bil to court will not cause strife. So you're choice is to accept you may never get the money back (and that you were really rather stupid lending it in the first place especially in a pandemic where work isn't assured) or fight for it and potentially end up divorced, which is more important to you?

I agree with the above posts even with no tenancy agreement you will struggle to get him out as easily people seem to think.
He’s in the house - your not

I would get legal advice because unless he leaves through his choice you may have an expensive court case ahead

he's played you like a fiddle
he knows exactly what he's doing and how this would pan out, he deliberately put you in an awkward corner to give him the best chance of making off with your money...imo

Don't talk about court proceedings if you haven't already asked for the money back.
Call him, telling him you need the money back pronto and you need to either rent or sell the house so he'll have to move out. Back it up with an email, specifying the date on which he needs to be out by. You can ask him does he need formal notice in order to be rehoused, and if he does, serve it on him, "as requested".
No ned for any drama, it's your house and money and you need to cover your expenses. Keep it civil. You are not ruining a relationship, you are simply asking for your own money back as promised, and to be able to deal with your house. You've helped him out big time, but now you are having hard times so you've given him a breathing space for which he should be grateful.

Start charging him rent as already suggested as at least you would be getting something off him. If that fails, no choice but to evict and take him to the small claims court. Try first asking him to leave and see if he goes on his own without issue, otherwise he needs to be served an eviction notice and this will take time due to the backlog but best get it in sooner than later to start the process. Not sure what agreements, if any, you have between you though in respect of that?

As for your OH don't pussy foot around him, its clear where his priorities lie and it isn't with yourself or children.

If no rent is being paid for the use of the house, then no tenancy has been created and court proceedings aren't necessary to get him out. You can simply ask him to leave.

OP, what is BIL's position on this?? Has he given any reason as to why he's not repaying you?

If you really don't want to cause ructions - although tbh I would and am not sure why your DH doesn't want to, given what is at stake for you and your family here - could you agree a payment plan with him??

OR alternatively, just say you need to start charging him rent and ask him for 700/800 a month, or whatever the market rate is where he's living. You will have your £7k back within the year.

Really appreciate the advice so far!

Obviously when we first loaned him the money/let him live in the house it was pre pandemic so no official terms were agreed- plus, I didn't think he would take the piss like this. I genuinely am shocked he has done this.

The issue we now have with asking him to leave- I wouldn't now put it pass him being malicious and then us having to fork out money for repairs. And even if he doesn't do that- we will have to pay for the council tax etc and for someone to keep an eye on the place (would be necessary- it would be turned into a squat otherwise) until we find a decent renter because we are 200 miles away. That is more expense we just don't need nor can afford.

Get your loan back before you boot him out of the house.

You seem to be thinking of going to court before you've even had a formal conversation with him. Surely the first stage is a formal conversation about the repayment plan with him rather than relying on the fact that "he knows"?

If you do start to charge rent then ensure you have a proper tenancy agreement drawn up and serve the correct documents on him ie How to Rent Guide, gas safety certificate, EPC and now EICR test certificates. That's when you will create legal problems getting him to leave.

YANBU to need your money back.

It sounds to me like the private ed is soon going to be untenable anyway if you are living off a rapidly dwindling inheritance, especially whilst keeping hold of a house for sentimental reasons. Not very realistic unless there is a paying tenant who can cover costs of maintenance AND bring in a profit? I think your DH's attitude to his brother is the same as wanting to keep hold of the house in a way.

I think you need to speak plainly to him and say you literally can't afford to subsidise him any longer. But I don't think you were ever getting that money back

Well you are going to have to do something unless your businesses pick up very quickly so it is the worst of three evils. Make the BIL pay rent and send a solicitors letter saying that you will be claiming through small courts. Carry on as you are until the inheritance is gone and if you still have no income you will have to do one of the two other options. Third option is sell the house and tell him you are selling so he has to make other arrangements.

Give him notice and get a proper tenant.
He's proved he sees you as a free bank.

DH won’t talk about it. He wants to just “leave it”
I have a BIL who has ripped my husband (ie his brother) off financially, if I raise the issue H refuses to discuss it, I think it's because the internal conflict he feels, anger at his brother vs a feeling of family loyalty makes him so stressed that he cant even look at it and he just shuts it out.
The money doesnt affect me so I dont pursue it.
In your shoes I may pretend to let it go (so that BIL thinks I'm a soft touch) but quietly make plans to make sure he cant ever do anything again ever

@cally8019

Really appreciate the advice so far!

Obviously when we first loaned him the money/let him live in the house it was pre pandemic so no official terms were agreed- plus, I didn't think he would take the piss like this. I genuinely am shocked he has done this.

The issue we now have with asking him to leave- I wouldn't now put it pass him being malicious and then us having to fork out money for repairs. And even if he doesn't do that- we will have to pay for the council tax etc and for someone to keep an eye on the place (would be necessary- it would be turned into a squat otherwise) until we find a decent renter because we are 200 miles away. That is more expense we just don't need nor can afford.

If that is the case that there is no formal agreement with regards to his living arrangements you may have problems. Like myself and others have said before just ask him to leave stating that you can no longer afford to keep up with your original verbal agrement. If he doesn't leave then you would need to seek legal advice. He has already had a lot of months rent free so he's done well out of you already never-mind the loan on top.

If you can print out texts and messages confirming how much is owed and that he agreed to pay it back this is sufficient evidence for the court to find in your favour regarding the loan. So you can handle the debt recovery yourself. Send him a letter before action giving him 21 days to pay you back or agree to a payment plan then take him to court using the money claims process on the gov uk website if he fails to respond. Ring Shelter for free advice regarding the house issue. If there is no tenancy agreement but subject to Shelter’s advice to the contrary, can you not go round to the house, change the locks and throw him out?

I know this isn’t the point of the thread but I’m at the age range and number of kids you have. Impressive.

It sounds like him living in your grandmother’s house is a mutually convenient arrangement: He pays all the bills and looks after the house, you provide a rent free place to live.
So I would not (threaten to) ask him to leave because finding a new tenant does not sound like a credible short term threat.

However, if you wanted to have a conversation about the 7k, you might put it in the context of rent - e.g., you are not paying rent on the house, would you be able to pay the 7k back in monthly instalments of similar size to what your rent would otherwise be?

I would be inclined to preserve the relationship even if at a high cost because
A) it doesn’t sound like the 7k is the real answer to your financial worries
B) you don’t have much family you’re in touch with on your husband’s side and there is so much value in having family you can rely on (on the emotional level but also practically including in future him checking up on your house if for some reason it ends up empty or rented to people you don’t know well etc. Who knows, he may one day return the favour)

Tell your DH to man up and tell his brother to pay up. Now. Or he can move in with the cheeky fucker and start paying you rent for both of them.

DD3 will struggle as she is very routine based/likes familiarity

Everyone likes familiarity, she will survive. You can't afford private school.

You'd need to check to be sure, but I think if your tenant doesn't have an agreement you have to use a Section 8 process to evict them, rather than Section 21. It might involve court action. If you haven't already you need to immediately get a Gas Safety Certificate done and give him a copy. There is a substantial fine for failing to do this.
You need to get informed very quickly about having him in your property. Landlordzone forum is fantastic, they can be a bit blunt and probably would in your case, but you'd get great advice.

Ok so the positive is that he has repaid some of the money so far. Albeit not within the terms you agree. At this stage I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he intends to repay you in full, but has chosen to be a real CF in terms of timescales.

In relation to the free house he’s taking the piss.

I would have a conversation with him directly and explain to him that you had an agreement etc and you and your family are experiencing your own financial issues.

He then has to give you a solution to repay. Don’t offer him a plan, make him think about it and take responsibility.

If he repays the money then as he’s family he can have x amount of months to get himself straight and can either leave the house or start paying rent.

If he doesn’t repay then it would be goodbye from me and he would find his possessions on the front lawn.