Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

660 replies

Incogweeto · 10/03/2021 12:01

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

OP posts:
toomanycremeeggs · 10/03/2021 12:47

@Butterflypaper

Re comment on "hot housing" to pass - it's true that children can be improved with preparation and coaching, however you still have to be pretty bright enough to understand the coaching and apply many different knowledges across the exam papers.

For example, you could probably coach Maths by rote as it's factual. However the Maths questions are often designed to show the child's grasp on comprehension in terms of how it's been phrased. There will be children who can certainly do Maths well, as in numbers, but the questions that are wordy and misleading (a bit like a maze with dead ends) and the actual question can be buried in the middle of the text. It's really hard to coach that.

Ah cross post.

Good points here!

MatildaTheCat · 10/03/2021 12:48

OP has left the building.

emilyfrost · 10/03/2021 12:49

YABVU and would be doing a disservice to her if you lied.

She needs to learn that failure is a normal part of life and it’s your job as a parent to teach her how to cope with it so she becomes an emotionally resilient adult, not shield her from it so she grows up unable to handle it.

LocalHobo · 10/03/2021 12:49

OP, this is an obviously terrible idea. Children need to learn how to fail and there's nothing wrong with saying that some people are better at stuff than others.
"If you can meet with triumph and disaster just the same" etc. (Not that 11+ failure is a disaster!) but please don't raise a snowflake.

FreekStar · 10/03/2021 12:49

I absolutely would not lie! Deal with it properly and she won't feel a failure! If she feels a failure it will be your fault!

Pickupapigeon · 10/03/2021 12:50

If you really think she hasn’t got much chance of passing the 11+ I wouldn’t put her forward. If you think she has a reasonable chance, I would have a conversation with her beforehand about how not all children will pass, let it be her decision whether to take it or not, but give her the honest results either way.

SecondBabyGirl · 10/03/2021 12:51

I know you mean well, OP, but this is why some of UG students have minor emotional breakdowns when they don't do well on an assignment, even when it doesn't cause them to fail their degrees. Children who are never taught to deal with failure turn into adults who can't deal with failure. It's an important part of life. Wrapping her up in cotton wool is not going to do her any favours.

If you REALLY don't want her to experience this then don't let her take the exam. But if you're going to let her have a stab at it, then she deserves to know how she did. She's 11, not 5.

StepOutOfLine · 10/03/2021 12:51

She either doesn't sit the exam, or you don't lie.

justanotherneighinparadise · 10/03/2021 12:51

Truth is always the best policy.

Alexandernevermind · 10/03/2021 12:51

Another vote for no.
11+ or SATs where I am isn't about passing or failing for the child, its about finding out what your abilities are and where they lie, so that you can be put onto flight paths working out where you should be for core subjects. It probably baries area to area. You talking about passing or failing at this age for something as important as a school isn't at all clever. Even for music or martial arts or whatever, I don't talk about passing or failing to my children, gradings are about seeing where they are and what they need to do to improve.

VettiyaIruken · 10/03/2021 12:51

Good luck when she finds out as an adult. Mum decided I was too whiney to be allowed to know I'm not bright. (not saying she is in reality either of those things but it's a potential interpretation she may have and not within your control)

This is such a bad idea. Teach her how to handle disappointment, don't lie to her.

Butterflypaper · 10/03/2021 12:54

Also in response to the OP's question. If you tell her she passed and she insists upon going (as you said she really wants to go to grammar in your OP) how are you going to handle that?

saffire · 10/03/2021 12:54

Why make her sit the exam and put her through all that if you can afford to go private anyway?

Bumpsadaisie · 10/03/2021 12:54

I really wouldn't lie to your daughter. I can see it's coming from a good place but I really wouldn't.

Why not instead prepare her realistically for the exam, that she might pass but she might not, and whatever the outcome you love and are proud of her.

Or, simply don't enter her for it.

She's less academic than your eldest - that's the reality and she and you all know that and need to accept it. It could be more valuable to her in the long run to be supported to accept that and to value the gifts she does have than just to pretend.

My eldest is really bright, as in stand out bright. My youngest is bright enough but nothing unusual. At some point that truth is going to have to be faced. They both know it already so it's not like a secret. I don't think I'd be helping by covering up the truth.

My youngest although less academically successful has many qualities that eldest does not which make me think he is the more likely to be successful, of the two of them.

MammaMiaWallace · 10/03/2021 12:56

YABU - I disagree with this because you’re potentially going to lie to her that she’s more intelligent than she is... not exactly healthy.

If you’ve already told her it’s your choice and you can’t bear the thought of her failing or that she couldn’t cope with the failure, then surely just send her to the private school? What’s the point of the facade?

Very odd and not healthy from a “genuine awareness of abilities” perspective.

LongDivision · 10/03/2021 12:57

Just tell her she'll be able to go to private if she doesn't pass. That way, the pressure is off, and I'm sure she already knows that her sister has different abilities than she does. Don't make it into a massive deal by hiding the truth.

MammaMiaWallace · 10/03/2021 12:58

I did go to grammar school for a couple of years and then to private boarding so have experienced both (just for disclosure).

AIMD · 10/03/2021 12:59

Your lying would also sends a message to her about your throughts on the outcome. It would send a message that it’s not ok to do badly on a test and it’s not ok that she didn’t pass. That itself would probably be more damaging than her not passing the test.

jadedagain · 10/03/2021 12:59

Don't lie. Hopefully she will pass but, if not, better to say that anyone can have an off day. One day, one test-it is not fair. On another day she would have passed but actually you think school x may be better anyway because of......... None of this is a lie-it is all true.

MimiDaisy11 · 10/03/2021 13:01

Ultimately you have control of the school, but what if all her friends are going to grammar school and she kicks up a fuss and doesn't let it go. Won't she get suspicious about why her sister gets to go but she doesn't?

I'm from Scotland so not sure how these tests for grammar schools work but if you receive a letter with results won't she want to see it? Won't her sister realise what you're doing or wonder why the difference in schools if they both passed? Don't they have more facilities and events at private schools? Won't the other sister get jealous and think you favoured her younger sister?

I think there's potential for it to backfire. I think you should teach children about failure and how to overcome it. Successful people fail all the time. There are lots of successful people who didn't excel at school and plenty who did who didn't excel in work. If you're scared of failing and protected from it that's not good for development. I wish we realised that more.

whoopsnomore · 10/03/2021 13:01

@bourbonne

Also, think about what you'd be telling her about other children. She would take the message that she is "cleverer than" all the children in her class who haven't passed. Some of whom might still be pretty bright kids. Why give her an unwarranted superiority complex? It won't help her in life.
^^. this. What is the matter with the UK education system when the most privileged with the option to pay their way, still want to pretend their children are smarter than others? You're setting your daughter up with a lifetime of lies or resentment. Why don't you just tell her you're paying to give her a better start than those who can't afford it, and she'll do just fine in life because of her comfortable start. Who else would you need to lie to to preserve this illusion - her grandparents? Her friends' parents? Your neighbours? Her current teachers? Her future teachers (they'll know!) ...
TableFlowerss · 10/03/2021 13:02

@UserTwice

I don’t think there is a private school entrance exam when you’re paying. I assume it’s only for potential scholarships

There are an awful lot of selective private schools. If they just want your money, you wouldn't have to sit an entrance exam.

They’re not all selective though are they......
dreamingofsun · 10/03/2021 13:02

learning to accept potential failure is something kids have to learn as they grow up.

my son needed 0,5% more to get into the grammar his sibling went to. We cried when he didnt get it and then he just had to make the best of things and get on with it. Now has a degree and masters from russell group unis and just got his dream job. Life is a series of challenges and you are not setting bar high enough if you pass them all.

lying is job bad.......even if your intentions are good

ChancesWhatChances · 10/03/2021 13:02

100% positive I’ve read this before, except with son instead of daughter...

AndThenTheDayBecomesTheNight · 10/03/2021 13:02

@Alexandernevermind

Another vote for no. 11+ or SATs where I am isn't about passing or failing for the child, its about finding out what your abilities are and where they lie, so that you can be put onto flight paths working out where you should be for core subjects. It probably baries area to area. You talking about passing or failing at this age for something as important as a school isn't at all clever. Even for music or martial arts or whatever, I don't talk about passing or failing to my children, gradings are about seeing where they are and what they need to do to improve.
I think you should take the fact that you've considered this as an indication that your values need rethinking, OP. This would be quite a big and serious lie, to your own child - this suggests that you consider a (relative!) lack of academic ability to be something awful and impossible to confront her with. There are plenty of things you can do to help her understand that the 11+ measures a fairly narrow set of skills with quite an arbitrary cut-off and that it says nothing whatsoever about her abilities (seen in the round) and worth, but you seem to prefer the idea of lying to putting that work in. It sounds a bit as if you've bought into a very limited view of specific academic skills as being the only ones worth having. And one of the very first posters on the thread made quite a good point, albeit a little unkindly, that you can throw money at this specific 'problem' where many can't - but are of no less value, or ability in whatever shape or form, than your children.