To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

So from a young age, you're going to lie to your DD??? You're going to have to keep up this lie (irrespective of how well or poorly she does in future educational aspirations) for the rest of your life.
When does the lie stop? How likely are you to let something slip in a conversation in 25 years time? How badly is that likely to impact on your relationship with her?
"Mum lied to me. So did Dad. They kept lying to me. Yet they always told me to tell the truth, no matter what." What kind of weird message is that sending your daughter??
When you say "There's no way she'll ever find out"...it'll come out. Eventually. Someone will forget that it is a secret and drop it into conversation. She'll be shocked that her parents lied to her. It'll come out.
Just because you can afford to select a school for your DD to attend no matter what she gets in her 11+, it's not right to lie to her about her results.

Your not helping your child to learn to deal with the world if you hide them from everything that may be a bit tough.

I agree with the posters saying how are you going to handle the fact that she wants to go to the grammar school? I'm not sure your line about parents choosing will work if her friends tell her that they were allowed some input into the decision. What if she begs to go the grammar school and can't understand why you won't let her choose?

Terrible idea. What if you have a row with her when she’s a teenager (teenagers can try your patience in a way you would never have anticipated when they were sweet primary age children) and the truth slips out?
I agree with the person who said if she’s not resilient enough don’t put her in for it. But I would add to that by saying if you’re not capable of convincing her it’s unimportant and not a reflection of who she is, don’t put her in for it.

@WoolieLiberal

Surely where the 11+ still exists it’s no longer mandatory? Why on earth would you subject your daughter to it if you think she won’t pass?

Lying isn’t the solution. What if, for example, her best friend ends up passing the 11+ and says she’s going to the grammar and DD2 then decides it’s really where she wants to go?

You have to tell her you lied to her and she didn’t pass.

That would destroy both her confidence and her trust in you.

11 year olds don’t get to decide where they go to school. Not my 11 yr olds

I agree with above OP, I absolutely would tell her the truth.

It's not a bad life lesson, explains where else she'll go and she'll have to get over it. Don't put too much pressure on it,

I can't advise you to drop the 11+ because it would be unfair to her sibling to send her directly to private.

If she fails I would go with the white lie about how she came so close.

What will happen if she fails the 11 plus and the private school entrance exams?

@Secretroses

If I was the older sister, I might feel resentful that my parents had chosen to send my younger sister to a private school for no good reason. It would feel like favouritism.

Yes - this.

You could end up with two resentful kids - one who doesn’t understand why you “wouldn’t let” her take up the grammar school place she “won” and one wondering why her sister is “worth” private school and she isn’t.

The damage done to their relationship could last decades.

Terrible idea that you will live to regret. I agree with @AlexaShutUp.

If she does win a place at grammar school will she be happy as one of the less academically gifted children there? Always one of the ones who, whilst bright, are behind the others?

I would be the adult and either not do the exam and tell her the private school is best for her OR be very honest that she may not be offered a place and if she is it may be a struggle.

I agree with the PPs who say we, as parent, do our children a huge disservice if they cannot be unsuccessful at times. My DS was academically bright and sporty so never really failed at much. He as an adult has found disappointment such as failing his driving test or being unsuccessful at an interview, very hard to take. That wasn’t because we shielded him but a natural consequence of his life to date.

I wouldn’t. No grammar schools in my area but when I was growing up but my parents made me go to a private school for secondary, whereas my older brother was at the local comp (which was very good). I always really resented them for sending me there and I hated the school. It seemed very unfair as I just wanted to be at the school my brother was at. You may have similar problems. Best just to be honest and then she knows that’s her best option and will hopefully make the most of it.

If you don't think she'll pass why is she sitting it? I would manage my child's expectations in life, not lie to them.

I think it’s our job to be supportive of our children when they fail. But not to shield them from the failure.

If she fails you, you point out the wonderful attributes of the private school, and you encourage all of the things she excels in.

Tell her she’ll thrive in the environment that’s right for her. And the grammar school wouldn’t be that for her.

I really do get the temptation. My dd is an overachiever and my sons aren’t. They have many wonderful qualities but she’ll beat them academically hands down, every time. There’s nothing any of us can do about it.

Equally, they have their own strengths that she doesn’t possess.

That’s life!

@Ifailed

Bully for you for being wealthy enough to pay for the lie, all the kids from normal homes can just suck up being labelled thick.

This. In spades.

I wouldn't- my mum sometimes protected me from things she thought would upset me (really weird things that wouldn't have bothered me) and it made me feel like she didn't think I was strong enough to cope with these things.

I took an entrance exam to a grammar school and failed it. I survived that, it's important to experience failure because it will happen again in life. As it happens I have 2 post graduate degrees and a doctorate now. It wasn't that I wasn't academic, I just couldn't pass that exam.

She will also likely already know she's not as bright as her sister. That's ok. I'm sure she has other qualities that she's better at. Focus on those. Build her up for who she is, not who either of you think she should be

@AnotherEmma

YABVU to lie to your child. If she wants to go the grammar school, it's really cruel to tell her that she could have gone but you decided to send her to the private school instead. She might end up resenting you for making that choice. If she doesn't pass the 11+, it's an important opportunity for her to learn that "failure" is ok, it's part of life, it's not a reflection of her worth or abilities, and she can still succeed if she takes a different path. I say this as someone who was an incredibly high achieving child, never really failed at anything, which made it harder for me to deal with failure when it inevitably happened later in life.

Totally agree with this. It's a life lesson. It's not that you 'failed' it's how you deal with it that matters.

This is why we are turning into a nation of snowflakes who are incapable of dealing with any unpleasant or difficult situation. Children aren't being taught how to overcome adversity because they're constantly shielded from it.

I’ve one child who does fine bright but not scholarship material. Bit lazy head in the clouds.

My other son is an absolute genius and they’re beginning to notice

I’d always fib to close the gap
Sibling harmony is precious and so is self esteem.

@SendMeHome

I wouldn’t, but only because I think it’d be pretty damaging if she found out.

I’d just not tell her the results. Don’t mislead her, but don’t lie to her.

I agree with this.

I think even if you tried to lie deep down your daughter would know or at least suspect. I think lies can be really damaging.

I also hate all this 'pass/fail'. Wasn't the original plan of the 1944 Education Act to 'sort' children into the best type of educational setting for them. Unfortunately it never really turned out like that (the technical schools barely even got off the ground).
I hate it when people talk about 'passing' sats too.
A child doesn't 'pass'. They get a score.
What are your daughter's actual interests? Surely it would be better to look for a school more suited to where her interests lie. Most comprehensive/academy schools have a specialism. Are your non grammar alternatives academy, comp or modern?
Are there future 14+ options such as a UTC so she could go to a 'comp' for 3 years and then switch.
Also you do realise grammar schools are state schools - as you said the "state alternatives are terrible"

I was at school with a girl who failed the 11+ but whose parents told her she'd passed. It came out because everyone in the class kept asking her why she wasn't going to x school if she'd passed. Eventually the girl realised that this did make no sense and her parents had to confess.

In OP's case there is no reason to make the child sit the 11+ if her parents think the private school is better. And if the private school is better, why isn't her sister going there? She (or the other children in her class) will figure it out and it will be worse than if you'd told her orginally.

@Racoonworld

What will happen if she fails the 11 plus and the private school entrance exams?

I don’t think there is a private school entrance exam when you’re paying. I assume it’s only for potential scholarships

Actually telling her she has passed when she hasn’t is doing a disservice to her sister who did pass , what is the plan if the older sister gets 10 top grade GCSEs to forge the other ones certificates so she gets the same ?

And .... YABU for saying that state options are dreadful but you want to send your child to the grammar school. Unless you genuinely haven't realised that grammar school are state schools.

I wouldn’t lie OP but would try really really hard to let her know (as I’m sure you do) that whether she passes or not she is perfect and is loved unconditionally. It’s so tempting to spare our kids any disappointments but they have to be able to go through life accepting that there are always going to be more academic people wherever they go and to be able to accept that without doing themselves down and feeling any less.

My DB failed his 11+ and when my parents complimented him on his smart school uniform for our local comp he said he wasn’t proud of it as it branded him a failure. My parents made it clear that he might feel that way but it was absolutely not the case. He got over it. He has his own strengths and had a fabulous career that made the most of them. Our kids need to know they are so much more than their academic ability. That’s one part of them. Let her sit it if she wants to and you feel it’s in her interest to do so and remind her that no matter how she does she is good enough