To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

I think the grammar school places should be given to children that pass the test with zero help and private tuition, other than a few example papers.

The brightest children that are genuinely academic should get those places, not children of wealthy parents that don’t want to pay for private school fees if they can house their child for a couple of years and take up the grammar space.

If you’ve hot housed her for over a year so she passes then I would tell the truth and say that not everyone is highly academic.

If you haven’t tutored her then I’d explain that the vast majority of parents have paid to make sure they’re child passed and that’s not always a good idea as many children will struggle to keep up.

Don’t put her in for the rest of you don’t think she has the resilience to deal with the outcome

*test

Surely where the 11+ still exists it’s no longer mandatory? Why on earth would you subject your daughter to it if you think she won’t pass?

Lying isn’t the solution. What if, for example, her best friend ends up passing the 11+ and says she’s going to the grammar and DD2 then decides it’s really where she wants to go?

You have to tell her you lied to her and she didn’t pass.

That would destroy both her confidence and her trust in you.

Why lie? All of my kids sat the 11+ - I told them in advance that regardless of how smart they thought they were, the likelihood was that they wouldn’t get in, because the schools were oversubscribed every year with applicants - 2k for 100 places. My son failed spectacularly - I showed him the results, it was the kick up the arse he needed to sort himself out after coasting lazily. The girls got as far as interview stage. None of my kids have or would consider themselves failures because they didn’t get in to grammar school, or the state schools that were their first choice.

Charming. Poor girl.
My mum was "never forgiven" for failing the 11+ . Although that was the 1950s and the Secondary Moderns then were very basic (leave at 15 with no exam taken).
However I believe if she was in school these days it would be very different. In her youth she made clothes from scratch and can knit without even having to look at the needles. In recent years she joined a social group and ended up on the organising committee (something that wouldn't have existed in her school days).
If she was at school today she could be studying GCSE textiles and/or fashion design. She could be on a student council and organising events. A completely different type of education.
Are the local Secondary Moderns/Comprehensive schools really that bad? What do they actually offer. They might suit your daughter more.

Also, think about what you'd be telling her about other children. She would take the message that she is "cleverer than" all the children in her class who haven't passed. Some of whom might still be pretty bright kids. Why give her an unwarranted superiority complex? It won't help her in life.

You could have written this about my children except they are boys and the younger took the test last year - oldest got a very high score, youngest was on the cusp but didn't get in, really wanted to go there. May get in on the waiting list but I doubt it.
I don't have the option of lying to him as private school is not an option, but I wouldn't anyway He was pretty sad about it, we had tears. But he has had a lot of support from family members. His friends are very pleased he will be going to the same school as them, and have cheered him up a bit. The school he will attend has some facilities and offers some subjects the grammar school does not, so we can big that up.
In my experience all the kids know what score they got and tell each other. Would you tell your daughter a made-up score? How would you decide what score to tell her? If not what would you say if she says "Isabella says she got 338 but she hasn't been offered a place, what did I get?"

@AlexaShutUp

No. The one thing that I wish my parents had done for me when I was younger was to help me learn how to fail. To accept it as an inevitable part of trying different things and living life to the full, and to realise that it really isn't the end of the world when it happens. Perhaps if they had done that, I wouldn't fear failure so much to the extent that I rarely try things unless I'm reasonably sure of success.

I've actively sought out opportunities for my dd to fail from an early age. Not always easy as she tends to be good at everything she tries, but by constantly pushing her outside of her comfort zone, we have found ways of allowing her to experience failure in a healthy way. I'm so glad that we did, as she is totally unfazed by it and she will have a go at anything. She understands that it's just as much a failure if you don't try at all as it would be if you tried and didn't succeed - more so, actually. I wish I could have gone through life like that.

We do our children no favours by protecting them from failure. Much better to just accept it and model a healthy approach to it. Don't make it into something so awful that you can't even tell her about it. If she doesn't get into the grammar, no big deal - there is another great school that she can go to instead.

Excellent post, I agree with all this. My DCs are still young but I hope I can do similar.

If I was the older sister, I might feel resentful that my parents had chosen to send my younger sister to a private school for no good reason. It would feel like favouritism.

I hate it when parents want to share their kids from the truth to spare their feelinhs and let them believe they are what they are not.

If she fails, tells her that either it was bad luck, a bad day, or not the questions she was best at responding, but that it says ok because one's life is not define by one day in someone's life and that she will have hundreds or more opportunity to shine. That being academic is not the be all end all and that many people end up very happy and successful in their own way.

It's much better to teach confidence focusing on what she's got to be proud of than by lying and making her believe what she's not.

Just don't sit her for 11+ if she can't handle the disappointment.

BUT

If she is determined to get in then help her. Maybe tell her if she gets a consistent score on Atom of XXX then you will put her forward. Then she herself will have an idea of whether she is likely to get in. Tell her she's got a bit of work to do but if she wants, you'll help her give it her best shot.

Covering up over her failures, no matter how tough it will be is not the greatest idea. Manage her expectations, encourage her to pursue her strengths and passions, and she will learn to deal with life, and have a go at things without the fear of failure. Don't write her off until writes herself off.

Please don't lie to her. Just tell her the truth in a kind way, for example; the mark needed to get in was really high this year, you got XXX so didn't quite make it.

More of a concern is what will you do if she doesn't pass the entrance exam for private school?

She has to learn to deal with not doing as well as she would like at some point, OP. How can she develop strength and resilience if you lie to her about disappointing news?

Don't lie to her! Sit her down and talk to her about the options. She already knows she is not as academic as her sister whether it has been spoken about or not. She WANTS to go to the grammar, if you say "Well, yes, you passed the exam but we are sending you to private instead!" you are not only lying to her but you are saying her choices are irrelevant. As parents you help her to deal with the failure if she does indeed fail, reassure her and explain the advantages of the private school. If you lie to her she will almost certainly find out at some point and the fallout from the parental deception may well be far worse than dealing with the exam failure in the first place.

YABU - you need to prepare her for failures in life. Better she experiences failure now than grows up unable to cope with it, people won't cover for her shortcomings when she is in the workplace.

It might be she is not as academically minded as your other child - if she fails exams because of this, so be it. That's life - you might work just as hard as someone else and not be as good as them.

So will you keep this lie up forever then?

Lying to her about this forever, is keeping up the idea that children who ‘pass’ are better than those who don’t. If she doesn’t get a high enough score it doesn’t mean that she is a failure, it just means that other children scored higher. And that’s ok. It is shit that the non grammar options are nowhere near as the grammar schools, that is very unfair, and it’s crazy that we still have a system like this in 2021. But it must suit the kind of people who have power and influence. You are lucky enough to have the money to give you other choices, but it seems wrong to lie to your child and lead her to think that she is ‘superior’ to those who don’t.

Don’t lie , if you don’t want her to feel like she has failed the 11+ then don’t bother to take it , just say from now that you think the private school would be a better fit for her and send her there .

I wouldn't lie, I would agree to not discuss the results either way. I did exactly this with my son and his SATs. He was very middle of the road at primary school but he was very lucky to experience very enthusiastic and dedicated teachers at high school and because of this he worked very hard to stay in their classes. I don't think either of my kids would pass the 11+ as they were both very immature but they are thriving now as their teachers encouraged them to believe in themselves and to work hard.

@Secretroses

If I was the older sister, I might feel resentful that my parents had chosen to send my younger sister to a private school for no good reason. It would feel like favouritism.

Good point!

Don't lie, it's teaching a child that it's acceptable when it's not. I'm pretty sure there are decent state schools too, their grades are never going to be as high if the best are creamed off for grammar school. If you can afford private fine, why sit the test? And remember private schools don't have ofsted inspections, many non selective private schools are great, they just have pushier parents

If you think it's wrong for a 10 year old to feel like they've failed, why on earth would you make her do a test like this in the first place?

@Ifailed

Bully for you for being wealthy enough to pay for the lie, all the kids from normal homes can just suck up being labelled thick.

there's always one. Feeling better having that nasty rant?

If you think it’s bad that she potentially gets labelled a “failure”‘at age 11, why are you participating in the system that engineers that? Either send her to a comp (which obviously you won’t) or go private. And consider speaking out against the grammar system, for the benefit of kids from families who can’t afford to buy their way around the problem.