To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

I wouldn't lie, if you get found out she'll think worse of herself than just being upfront about it.

Everybody has to fail sometimes, that's life. Could be the 11 plus, driving test, not getting into a sports team.

It will be worse when she does find out and she will. Leading her into a false sense of her capabilities will lead to far worse feeling of failure than passing a test. Plus you teach children not to lie yet when it suits you.

OP, this is an obviously terrible idea. Children need to learn how to fail and there's nothing wrong with saying that some people are better at stuff than others. Your DD2 is less academic than her sister and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not sure why you've decided to put her forward for the 11+ when you're fairly sure she won't pass.

Besides, what are you going to say when you tell her that, yes, she got into a school she really wanted to but you're going to send her to a different one anyway?

I failed my entrance exam into private school aged 11. I was upset, but got over it.

It actually was a wake up call and I tried harder at school after that. Ended up reading history at Oxford.

Obviously my personal experience, but why not help her learn from he

My parents told me a lie as a child because they believed the truth would scare me. It probably would have done but I could have dealt with it with support. I found out twenty years later when DF was talking to someone about being a parent and told them about the lie as an example of something you have to do sometimes.

The lie I was told had no impact on my life long term and twenty years later finding out wasn’t life changing. But finding out this horrible thing had happened not what I thought had made me think a lot. It was uncomfortable and it did make me wonder what else I wasn’t told. The lie you propose telling your daughter would be very hard to get over.

You’re storing up trouble if you don’t tell her. It’s not the end of the world. I went to grammar whereas my sister failed the 11 plus but got a full scholarship to a private school. She was disappointed but it wasn’t the end of the world. Kids need to learn from an early age that they can’t always have everything they want and that some people are just better than them (in this case academically)

*whatever the outcome.

@AlexaShutUp

No. The one thing that I wish my parents had done for me when I was younger was to help me learn how to fail. To accept it as an inevitable part of trying different things and living life to the full, and to realise that it really isn't the end of the world when it happens. Perhaps if they had done that, I wouldn't fear failure so much to the extent that I rarely try things unless I'm reasonably sure of success.

I've actively sought out opportunities for my dd to fail from an early age. Not always easy as she tends to be good at everything she tries, but by constantly pushing her outside of her comfort zone, we have found ways of allowing her to experience failure in a healthy way. I'm so glad that we did, as she is totally unfazed by it and she will have a go at anything. She understands that it's just as much a failure if you don't try at all as it would be if you tried and didn't succeed - more so, actually. I wish I could have gone through life like that.

We do our children no favours by protecting them from failure. Much better to just accept it and model a healthy approach to it. Don't make it into something so awful that you can't even tell her about it. If she doesn't get into the grammar, no big deal - there is another great school that she can go to instead.

AlexaShutUp has articulated this far better than I would have.

You're missing an opportunity to teach a valuable life lesson here - resilience.

I don’t think there is a private school entrance exam when you’re paying. I assume it’s only for potential scholarships

There are an awful lot of selective private schools. If they just want your money, you wouldn't have to sit an entrance exam.

There was almost an identical thread to this last year:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4023207-To-tell-my-son-he-scraped-a-pass-when-he-didn-t

Don't lie, it will only make your DC feel worse when the truth emerges ultimately. Work on her confidence / resilence and praise her effort and what she excels in

Think of it from the perspective of a friend in her class who also doesn't pass. "Even OP'sDaughter passed, and I always get higher marks than her! I guess I'm just not that clever after all...". "Well done, OP'sDaughter. I wish I was truly clever like you".

What is that child's mum supposed to say to her daughter?

Doesn't the private school have their own entrance exam? If she doesn't pass the 11+ she may well not pass that.

Parents being able to afford the fees doesn't guarantee any child a place.

Also, her teachers will know. Are you going to ask them to go along with the lie?

Exactly. I am totally anti the 11+, but if my child wanted to sit it, no way would I lie to them. You will be caught out, and the circumstances of her finding out the truth, particularly if it happens at school, would be excruciatingly humiliating for her.

I'm sorry but it's an insane idea for many reasons.

On the basis the grammar school will be oversubscribed anyway, in the event of her not being offered a place I'd just make up something about you deciding at the last minute the private school would be better for her. A white lie if you like?

Well. She could just not take it and go straight for the private school entrance ?

I wasn't even allowed to sit it because I was told by parents I'd fail.
Then failed entrance to my sibling's private school.

Got into a low grads 'finishing school' as the unpleasant sibling used to call it.

It's all about how it's said.. you can avoid it all together and focus on why the private school is better for her.

Well, if you want to reinforce a belief that she is inferior to her Dsis, that's the way to do it. She is bound to find out. You're sending the message that failing her 11+ is so terrible that you couldn't even tell her.

Better to prepare her for success and failure in life. Tell her it's a test of one thing on one day, and if she doesn't pass she doesn't pass but still has options for other schools. Get her thinking about all the possibilities.

I wouldn't, best she encounters small failures at an age where she has plenty of family support to cope with it. If she's shielded from these things, she may not having the coping mechanisms available to deal with more serious problems that come along when she's a teen or adult.

mmm just make sure it doesn't get to her another way. still vividly remember at school when we all got our 11+ results, a friend thought she had passed as her mum told her she did, but her mum had also told other school gate mums that she had failed it, so it got back to her through others in the class.

I think reframing the language might help. So talking about the school wanting a certain mark rather than her having “failed” the test.

The private school probably is the better choice if she's not as academic as her sister, where she won't feel a bit second rate compared to her peers

Oh for goodness sake, no you cannot lie and tell her she passed! I mean you can, but it would be an odd lie to tell which would come out in the wash eventually. Thousands of kids get told they haven’t passed every year, of course it is sad for them but if they’re bright enough to take the exam then they will understand that failure is a risk. You will actually be making it into a much bigger deal than it is.

If she doesn’t pass, tell her she was close (that’s an acceptable little white lie I think) then take her for a look around the private school to get her excited about it. Then take her for a little shopping trip for a new bag, pencil case etc etc. Find out the exciting clubs the school runs and ask which ones she would be interested in.

I find this sort of damaging mollycoddling to be really odd.

Re comment on "hot housing" to pass - it's true that children can be improved with preparation and coaching, however you still have to be pretty bright enough to understand the coaching and apply many different knowledges across the exam papers.

For example, you could probably coach Maths by rote as it's factual. However the Maths questions are often designed to show the child's grasp on comprehension in terms of how it's been phrased. There will be children who can certainly do Maths well, as in numbers, but the questions that are wordy and misleading (a bit like a maze with dead ends) and the actual question can be buried in the middle of the text. It's really hard to coach that.

On reflection could you not get her tutored? Focus on building her up that way?

Don't lie to her. Instead, concentrate on letting her know that it will be ok if she doesn't pass the 11 plus. This is one of the reasons why my dd didn't do the 11 plus. It can be hugely stressful. But your dd will be looking to you for reassurance that it is going to be ok whatever happens.