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Where would the money come from to give all NHS staff a 12.5% pay rise?

267 replies

katieloves · 05/03/2021 19:57

I cannot begin to think where cuts would be made to fund this when the economy already is in the state it’s in. How would you fund it?

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hobbyiscodefordogging · 05/03/2021 21:37

A 12.5% payrise 😂 😂 😂

LarryWasAHappyChap · 05/03/2021 21:38

Tax Amazon and Google?
Radical thought.

Or, since we're all in it together, the MPs could vote to cut their own wages by a couple of grand each...

HannibalHayes · 05/03/2021 21:38

...

Where would the money come from to give all NHS staff a 12.5% pay rise?
LarryWasAHappyChap · 05/03/2021 21:39

BTW, I don't really care about the NHS pay rise. But we can't claim theres no money when large corporations pay barely any tax. If the government gave half a shit, they could easily sort that out.

teentipans · 05/03/2021 21:39

Plenty of NHS workers vote for Tory though & while I don't disagree frontline staff deserve a pay rise I actually don't think a 12.5% increase for NHS staff during a period of higher taxation & wage stagnation for the majority will be popular with the voters.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 05/03/2021 21:40

Beecham
Hs2 is capital investment which means you get an asset matched against what you borrow, it doesn't have the same effect on government finances. It's a bit like how it's ok to borrow 100k to buy your house but if you were doing it to pay the leccy bill you would be fucked.

Stovetopespresso · 05/03/2021 21:40

@HannibalHayes Grin
and Trident and other stupid projects we've forgotten about

teentipans · 05/03/2021 21:40

Tax Amazon and Google?
Radical thought.

What would be far more radical because global companies require global taxation would be for consumers to just stop using them.

vimtosogood · 05/03/2021 21:43

By my calculations 12.5% pay rise for all NHS staff would cost £780 million.
Based on an average current salary of £33384 and 187000 staff.

TomHardyAndMe · 05/03/2021 21:45

@vimtosogood

By my calculations 12.5% pay rise for all NHS staff would cost £780 million. Based on an average current salary of £33384 and 187000 staff.
Rather more NHS staff than that in the U.K.! It’s about 3million, isn’t it?!
NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 05/03/2021 21:45

People have this idea that you can "tax companies" and it will mean the burden is passed to wealthy shareholders or will result in CEOs getting paid less etc. Reality is what happens is:

  • rises in prices to protect corporate profits (little people pay)
  • salaries at companies get squeezed (little people pay)
  • share values are hit and people's pensions are hammered (little people pay)

It's actually really hard to force the wealthiest to contribute a greater proportion as a) they already provide a huge amount of the tax revenue in the system and b) wealth is internationally mobile, and as long as different countries have different tax systems, money will simply tend to get invested more where the burden of taxation is lower and returns are correspondingly better.

I find it all a bit depressing really. The only real challenge against it is strong trade unions which can shift the balance of power.

Beaniecats · 05/03/2021 21:46

@Livelovebehappy

It’s crap, but 1% is 1% more than the majority of other employees are going to get this year.
We aren't having any pay rise, I've not had one since 2018 Then again I'm luckier than the thousands who have lost their jobs this last year
NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 05/03/2021 21:46

Vimtosogood
There are far more than 187000 staff aren't there?

teentipans · 05/03/2021 21:47

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland Absolutely it's not right & it is depressing but it is the reality.

Beaniecats · 05/03/2021 21:47

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

Where would the money come from? Simple, taxing low and middle earners. That's why NHS staff shouldn't get an increase - the people who have to pay for it are the people who had their own struggles through this whole crisis, people who haven't got a chance of even a 1% payrise, people who are fortunate to have kept their jobs.

There was some woman on the news earlier whining that nurses have had a 12% decrease in real terms over the past decade. Guess what? So has everyone! If I get a payrise in the next couple of years, I'll be back to earning what I earned in 2014. In absolute terms, not in real adjusted-for-inflation terms.

I have zero sympathy for the NHS staff who are complaining. If money is that important to you, train as a plumber or electrician.

I agree with you
teentipans · 05/03/2021 21:48

I'm a public sector worker & have spine points & grades & I was under the impression progression for those would still continue. Do the NHS have that system?

vimtosogood · 05/03/2021 21:48

Yikes, might have been out a bit based on duff Google stats. Not sure if dentists who treat both NHS and private deserve a pay rise, but based on 3 million is 12.5bn. That's a lot. And it's every year. And they'll demand the same next year.

FreakinFrankNFurter · 05/03/2021 21:50

I think ICU and covid ward staff should receive a one off bonus to reflect the hell they’ve been through this last year - surely that would be much easier to fund.

But I don’t think all NHS staff should receive a bonus, anymore than all public sector staff should receive one.

whatdoesthismeaneh · 05/03/2021 21:59

Whatever you say, you cannot magic money out of thin air. Wealth is created through productivity, not through a printing press - you print money, then you borrow money so you consume things today and have to tighten your belt tomorrow.

The country is knackered at the moment, loads of people havent been working and havent paid taxes because they havent earned anything. The government has borrowed vast amounts of money, it cannot keep borrowing money - every time this has happened in the history of money (circa 5000 years) it has had the same consequences, so the modern monetary theory is a load of balls.

The government has tried to keep taxes low to keep the economy going, at the same time as it injects significant monetary stimulus into it. It has few financial levers it can use promote further growth - taxes were low, interest rates were already nearly zero.

The only ways the government has to create wealth (to pay for higher NHS salaries) is increasing productivity. There are a few ways to do this 1) Everyone works longer hours for the same amount of money 2) Upskill everyone into high demand occupations 3) Boost innovation and tip money into things like 5G and R&D.

Option 1 - is pretty much already happening for those who havent been furloughed. Option 2 - Is an ambition but moving slowly Option 3 - The government is trying to promote but is slowing down the roll out for years of 5G because people like Ian Duncan Smith dont like Huawei.

Unfortunately we dont have a magic money tree, even paying MPs zero wouldnt get the money required and the government has already started to go after Amazon and Google - and is working with foreign governments to do it (this is slow).

TitsOot4Xmas · 05/03/2021 22:00

@FreakinFrankNFurter

I think ICU and covid ward staff should receive a one off bonus to reflect the hell they’ve been through this last year - surely that would be much easier to fund.

But I don’t think all NHS staff should receive a bonus, anymore than all public sector staff should receive one.

We don’t have an ICU. We have some nurses who may never work again due to permanent lung and/or brain damage from contracting Covid from patients though. And others who have worked 7 days a week covering the vaccination programme to try and avoid that happening to others. We’ve lost colleagues to it.

Don’t underestimate the impact this has had throughout the NHS. Not just ICU staff.

Morgoth · 05/03/2021 22:00

I thought the number of NHS staff was around 1.6-1.7 million? That’s what all the newspapers and FullFact were quoting today. Where is the 3 million figure from?

I concede I’m probably wrong, I just can’t find where I can see that information.

LemonRoses · 05/03/2021 22:01

The annual cost of doubling the pay rise for the UK's 670,000 nurses from 1% to 2% (£174m) is less than the amount we wasted on unusable FFP2 facemasks for the Govt's VIP lane favourites Ayanda and Pestfix (£204m).

lljkk · 05/03/2021 22:01

If fully taxing google/amazon were that easy, why is not a single country doing it? I just get a sense the words are easier to write than the idea to implement.

People seem to be saying that govt debt is marvelous & the more we have the better. I don't understand that argument either.

vimtosogood · 05/03/2021 22:02

@lljkk

If fully taxing google/amazon were that easy, why is not a single country doing it? I just get a sense the words are easier to write than the idea to implement.

People seem to be saying that govt debt is marvelous & the more we have the better. I don't understand that argument either.

But we could do it tomorrow! How specifically? Silence
TheReluctantPhoenix · 05/03/2021 22:06

12.5% is ridiculous and unaffordable but 1% is a real pay cut (and an insult).

A 3% rise for all front line staff and a freezing of NHS management salaries would be a good start, and would be affordable.