Where would the money come from to give all NHS staff a 12.5% pay rise?

[katieloves]

I cannot begin to think where cuts would be made to fund this when the economy already is in the state it’s in. How would you fund it?

*passed.

Government paid £150m for PPE to a mate of Liz Truss which was never delivered. No attempt to recoup this. That wasn’t an issue, nor was £40bn and counting for test and trace. The testing part hasn’t been too bad but the tracing element which is most of it has been an almost total waste of time. But nobody seem to criticise the amount of money spent on it as it went to their tory donor mates.

If k starmer let's all these apparent swindles go by the by without demanding an enquiry then more fool him.
But had we gone through normal procurement routes to get this stuff, and the vaccine, we'd probably still be waiting.

@Crackerofdoom

By not funding Trident? By not funding HS2 By reducing the number of Lords and preventing governments from swing the numbers in their favour when govt. changes by creating more M By closing tax loopholes By raising corporation tax By raising the highest rate of income tax By recouping the money from the failed track and trace scheme By not allowing the people who were buying the shares to be the same who valued the shares in Royal Mail By back taxing the monarchy and church for the last 500 years By reducing the defence budget By not having Brexit

Clearly the ship has sailed on some of these suggestions. But my point is that there is lots of money. It is just being spent on other things.

I personally would prioritise better health funding and education funding over all of the above, but clearly I am not in government.

Right and you can achieve one of these by April can you?

Doctors and nurses did exactly what they got into their jobs to do!! Everybody would like more money, and then what about other jobs where people could not work from home "putting their lives at risk", what about those who actually lost their jobs and livelihood to PROTECT THE NHS! The NHS is a public funded organization and should not be getting any more money in pay rises in the current situation .

Maybe from rich people who avoid paying their tax?

Taxing the middle classes and the private sector more as per usual. It's barely worth working in this country.

Don’t you think that if there was means of getting these rich people to pay more tax the government would be doing it? These people are either avoiding tax (legally using international tax laws to put money where they can avoid a tax liability arising in the UK) or evading tax (stealing).

The first the government has little control over. That’s the international tax landscape for you. Governments working together is the only way to sort this one out, and the UK is more than playing its part here. The second one is solved by HMRC employing more fraud investigators and chucking people in prison for a long enough time to be a deterrent.

If you want to pay NHS staff more (and to me, nurses, care workers, porters etc yes, Doctors no) try raising the basic rate of income tax. Paying them more is not so popular now is it?

It is so strange that questioning the magic money tree only seems to happen when it is about giving decent hardworking people a reward for their efforts.

I suggest that the money should come from the same place that the money came from to:

Bail out the banks
Give a £1 billion bribe to the DUP
Spend billions on Brexit
Giving millions to Tory marginals through the 'towns fund'
Give a couple of million to give MPs an inflation busting pay rise
£22 billion on a crap track and trace system (including management consultants at £1000 a day)
Hundreds of millions in non-tendered PPE contracts given to mates who have provided PPE that isn't safe to use.
Millions to fund a refurb of Westminster
Hundreds of thousands to fund a makeover of Downing Street
Six figure settlements to keep bullied civil servants quiet about the actions of ministers
£45k pay rise for Dom C

Amongst other things.

But where oh where could the money for an NHS pay rise possibly come from?

669600 nurses in the uk, 'This is a large increase from 2010 when there were around 541 thousand nurses.' quote from page

10% increase on 40,000 = 4,000 each per annum (very roughly) so in total that is 669600x4,000 = 2,678,400,000 - I think that is two thousand, six hundred and seventy eight billion , anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, 45K payrise to Dom C will really make a hole in that FGS

Info from here
www.statista.com/statistics/318922/number-of-nurses-in-the-uk/

I don't know why people don't get - that to stay in power the gov has to be popular - giving 12% to nhs would get them loads and loads of brownie points, loads and loads of votes - so ......mystery......... why don't they do it?????

Because it's too much money!!

Because it's too much money!!
There's always plenty for their pals.
They are playing to their voters.

@Eleganz

It is so strange that questioning the magic money tree only seems to happen when it is about giving decent hardworking people a reward for their efforts.

I suggest that the money should come from the same place that the money came from to:

Bail out the banks
Give a £1 billion bribe to the DUP
Spend billions on Brexit
Giving millions to Tory marginals through the 'towns fund'
Give a couple of million to give MPs an inflation busting pay rise
£22 billion on a crap track and trace system (including management consultants at £1000 a day)
Hundreds of millions in non-tendered PPE contracts given to mates who have provided PPE that isn't safe to use.
Millions to fund a refurb of Westminster
Hundreds of thousands to fund a makeover of Downing Street
Six figure settlements to keep bullied civil servants quiet about the actions of ministers
£45k pay rise for Dom C

Amongst other things.

But where oh where could the money for an NHS pay rise possibly come from?

Because a whopping pay rise to one section isn't a "one off". You multiply it every year forever, not just the current workers for their 30 years of working life, it also increases their pensions so that's say another 30 years. And the rise will also apply to all future new recruits, for their 30 years of service and their 30 years of pensions.

If it costs, say, 5 billion this year, then that's 10 billion in 2 years, 150 billion in 30 years, 300 billion over sixty years. It's never ending.

If anything, perhaps a one off "bonus" - at least then it's just a one off and doesn't carry forward and escalate.

Getting rid of trident would be a nice place to start

@MissyB1

The real question you should be asking is “can we afford to be insulting NHS staff? And can we afford to risk losing any more of them?” Because they are on their fucking knees and it’s not a great idea to slap them in the face right now.

This! From a fellow NHS worker on her knees.

Hope you are doing okay MissyB1 xx

There's always credit for crap, it seems. See 'D' for 'Dido Harding.'

Underpaid nurses mean they pay less into the economy. They leave the NHS, so fewer nurses. More people die. Or they join agencies for more money which is then paid by the NHS out of meagre resources. Less money for nurses to join.

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Paying nurses is not only morally right, it makes financial sense.

Paying nurses is not only morally right, it makes financial sense.

Not if you are undermining a system deliberately to make it fail but have had to do it slowly and 'stealthily' over decades theyve seen how much money can be made by commodifying health the same way they have housing, Tories support parasitic behaviour as long as youre their type

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

Where would the money come from? Simple, taxing low and middle earners. That's why NHS staff shouldn't get an increase - the people who have to pay for it are the people who had their own struggles through this whole crisis, people who haven't got a chance of even a 1% payrise, people who are fortunate to have kept their jobs.

There was some woman on the news earlier whining that nurses have had a 12% decrease in real terms over the past decade. Guess what? So has everyone! If I get a payrise in the next couple of years, I'll be back to earning what I earned in 2014. In absolute terms, not in real adjusted-for-inflation terms.

I have zero sympathy for the NHS staff who are complaining. If money is that important to you, train as a plumber or electrician.

Electricians have been told to expect a cut to standard JIB rates.

PAYING NURSES IS NOT ONLY MORALLY RIGHT, IT MAKES FINANCIAL SENSE.

According to royal school of nursing the average nurse earns 33k

I wish people would understand that government spending is not the same as household spending. The money doesn't just disappear out of a bank account never to be seen again.

Giving public sector workers payrises helps the economy grow. The money doesn't just disappear, a nurse will in all likelihood go and spend that money in the economy which creates jobs, growth and a knock on effect elsewhere.

It's called the multiplier effect.

The only thing that should be considered when increasing wages in public sector wages is inflation and I really don't think that is an issue at the moment.

@rwalker

PAYING NURSES IS NOT ONLY MORALLY RIGHT, IT MAKES FINANCIAL SENSE.

According to royal school of nursing the average nurse earns 33k

Yes, averaged. A band 5 earns a lot less, a band 9 a lot more. Most bedside nurses aren't anywhere near 33k, it's an inflated figure due to the management/higher level nurses.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Beecham Hs2 is capital investment which means you get an asset matched against what you borrow, it doesn't have the same effect on government finances. It's a bit like how it's ok to borrow 100k to buy your house but if you were doing it to pay the leccy bill you would be fucked.

Spot on...

@LarryWasAHappyChap
YES, AVERAGED. A BAND 5 EARNS A LOT LESS, A BAND 9 A LOT MORE.
MOST BEDSIDE NURSES AREN'T ANYWHERE NEAR 33K, IT'S AN INFLATED FIGURE DUE TO THE MANAGEMENT/HIGHER LEVEL NURSES.

Agreed a band 5 would start on just under 25k and then like many jobs you get yearly increment to max payscale of your band 25k is for the 1st year.

it's just some times we're given the impression nurses are on minimum wage.

The majority of my friends in the NHS earn between 28k and 40k .

The cabinet have given themselves a pay rise of over 10% every single year.

If there’s the money for that....

[quote rwalker]@LarryWasAHappyChap
YES, AVERAGED. A BAND 5 EARNS A LOT LESS, A BAND 9 A LOT MORE.
MOST BEDSIDE NURSES AREN'T ANYWHERE NEAR 33K, IT'S AN INFLATED FIGURE DUE TO THE MANAGEMENT/HIGHER LEVEL NURSES.

Agreed a band 5 would start on just under 25k and then like many jobs you get yearly increment to max payscale of your band 25k is for the 1st year.

it's just some times we're given the impression nurses are on minimum wage.

The majority of my friends in the NHS earn between 28k and 40k .[/quote]
The increments no longer give a payrise every year. Some are every 2 years and others up to 5 years before you see a payrise.