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Where would the money come from to give all NHS staff a 12.5% pay rise?

267 replies

katieloves · 05/03/2021 19:57

I cannot begin to think where cuts would be made to fund this when the economy already is in the state it’s in. How would you fund it?

OP posts:
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6
TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe · 05/03/2021 20:48

Where would the money come from? Simple, taxing low and middle earners. That's why NHS staff shouldn't get an increase - the people who have to pay for it are the people who had their own struggles through this whole crisis, people who haven't got a chance of even a 1% payrise, people who are fortunate to have kept their jobs.

There was some woman on the news earlier whining that nurses have had a 12% decrease in real terms over the past decade. Guess what? So has everyone! If I get a payrise in the next couple of years, I'll be back to earning what I earned in 2014. In absolute terms, not in real adjusted-for-inflation terms.

I have zero sympathy for the NHS staff who are complaining. If money is that important to you, train as a plumber or electrician.

GettingAwayWithIt · 05/03/2021 20:56

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

Where would the money come from? Simple, taxing low and middle earners. That's why NHS staff shouldn't get an increase - the people who have to pay for it are the people who had their own struggles through this whole crisis, people who haven't got a chance of even a 1% payrise, people who are fortunate to have kept their jobs.

There was some woman on the news earlier whining that nurses have had a 12% decrease in real terms over the past decade. Guess what? So has everyone! If I get a payrise in the next couple of years, I'll be back to earning what I earned in 2014. In absolute terms, not in real adjusted-for-inflation terms.

I have zero sympathy for the NHS staff who are complaining. If money is that important to you, train as a plumber or electrician.

You do realise that the vast majority of NHS staff - HCAs, porters, receptionists, cleaners - are low earners? Should all of those workers retrain in plumbing? Because I wouldn’t want to be in a hospital without those people.
frumpety · 05/03/2021 21:00

@rwalker , I think we borrowed a heck of a lot more money for the war, and the amount borrowed for this last year of the pandemic is quite small in comparison.

Where would the money come from to give all NHS staff a 12.5% pay rise?
Iceskatingfan · 05/03/2021 21:01

I could be wrong but I don’t think even Unison is really expecting a 12.5 percent payrise in all honesty, but it’s a place to start, to encourage a reasonable payrise in the circumstances (to show quite how off-base this 1 percent plan is).

I understand the country is under financial pressure and others are losing their jobs etc. but I still do think a small but significant payrise (and not yet another real terms cut due to inflation) should have been offered. Nobody would be turning up their noses at let’s say 5 percent or so I don’t think.

This government need to understand how low morale is in the NHS, and quite how bad pay and conditions have been under austerity and Brexit let alone the pandemic. It has been relentlessly shit since the 2008 crash and NHS doctors and nurses are starting to walk away in larger numbers now since the pandemic began although it started long before that (which may of course actually be this government’s end game with this hmmmm) It’s been a real terms cut pretty much every year since then (most years it’s been a total pay freeze) which was bad enough in “normal” times but throw in a pandemic and not at least offering a rise that keeps pace with inflation in such a year is just taking advantage of clinician’s goodwill even more than usual. Especially when combined with not finding the NHS enough money to deal with the aftermath and catch up care needed once restrictions lift. So basically simultaneously making working conditions even shitter and more stressful than they had to be for ages yet after a period of intense stress, while giving a real world pay cut.

It’s not ok but I expected no less from this government so it’s no surprise. If NHS staff had had decent pay rises which kept pace with inflation over the past decade, this wouldn’t be such a sticking point. The NHS has been run on goodwill ever since I started working for it, but at least under Blair it was not resented, as we felt slightly more fairly renumerated for it, and every day was not at warzone complete crisis firefighting level the way it has been for the past decade, so we had enough resilience to be able to step up at a time of sudden higher unexpected demand without completely burning out. And on a normal day enough time and energy to genuinely be aiming to achieve clinical excellence. I remember saying to my family that by 2016, I just felt as though I was practicing medicine in a war zone all day every day, no ability to do anything but deal with the category of “worst wounded who still have a chance of not dying if dealt with now”, and leaving aside those who wouldn’t make it and those with more minor although still life altering injuries, because of the crazy workload and time pressures.

As a salaried GP, I am aware that I have been relatively protected during this pandemic compared to some other NHS staff (which doesn’t mean it has been at all easy or that I’ve been hiding behind my phone etc before anyone says it). I do think if they feel they cannot afford a significant pay rise for all NHS staff, they should absolutely have found some sort of decent bonus payment for ITU staff in particular and other people working on dedicated COVID wards or doing aerosol generating procedures. Basically anybody who qualified for a fancier mask than a crappy surgical mask during the pandemic. I actually think ITU nurses (and doctors) DO absolutely deserve a 12.5 percent pay uplift or something very close to it.

Having said all that I did see an article quoting one young nurse saying that a 1 percent pay rise was “degrading” and felt that was a bit much! A pay rise is a pay rise and better than a pay freeze or a pay cut or losing your job for sure, and people should be mindful of others circumstances. But this year they really did need to offer something better than the “usual” one percent or nothing. How they could honestly have thought that would go down well I don’t know. Which brings me back to my conspiracy theories that it’s all being done on purpose to run the NHS down even further until there will be no choice but to privatise it and give all the contracts to their chums again.

LemonRoses · 05/03/2021 21:04

Maybe not 12.5% but there is the £350 million a week from Brexit. Then there must be something left over from the £27 plus billion for the track and don’t trace. Then Patel’s pay off for bullying. The. Jenrick’s castle perhaps.
Plenty of money if government wants something.

Iceskatingfan · 05/03/2021 21:06

Oh and funny that plumber and electrician are mentined as no joke, I have genuinely thought about retraining as a plumber or an electrician and getting out of medicine altogether in the past few years.

Morgoth · 05/03/2021 21:06

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

Where would the money come from? Simple, taxing low and middle earners. That's why NHS staff shouldn't get an increase - the people who have to pay for it are the people who had their own struggles through this whole crisis, people who haven't got a chance of even a 1% payrise, people who are fortunate to have kept their jobs.

There was some woman on the news earlier whining that nurses have had a 12% decrease in real terms over the past decade. Guess what? So has everyone! If I get a payrise in the next couple of years, I'll be back to earning what I earned in 2014. In absolute terms, not in real adjusted-for-inflation terms.

I have zero sympathy for the NHS staff who are complaining. If money is that important to you, train as a plumber or electrician.

“If money is that important to you”

Ridiculous. Unsurprisingly, most people can’t pay for food or pay rent with compassion or self-sacrifice. Money is pretty important to everyone.

The public get what they pay for. If you don’t fund your public sector properly or pay your workers properly, you won’t have good public services, and that will entirely be the fault of the electorate. We have a critical recruitment and retention crisis in both healthcare and education in this country. NHS staff need to stop working themselves to the bone for so many unpaid hours because they care. All it means is the public and government take more and more advantage of you.

NotFabulousDarling · 05/03/2021 21:09

Tax the rat farms.

User133847 · 05/03/2021 21:10

Why would ALL NHS staff get that rise? It's nurses and frontline workers (paramedics etc) who deserve better pay anyway and deserve a reward for all they've done and been through this year. They've gone above and beyond. We also need a lot more of them and a decent salary will entice more qualified people to the profession.

I have friends and family who work for the NHS but have been working from home for 12 months doing clerical duties. Why would they get the same reward as a nurse?

jakeee · 05/03/2021 21:11

@parallax80

They had to wear bin bags for PPE.

The bit that got really weird was when we ran out of gowns and it was suggested in all seriousness that we could use shrouds as an alternative.

The idea of going to intubate someone in Resus while dressed in a shroud (the ones with the frilly neck bit) was one of the least expected parts of my career so far.

People like you are the reason the NHS is so great. Humour in the face of adversity.

You are so appreciated. I'm sorry the government won't reflect that in your wages.

zoemum2006 · 05/03/2021 21:15

Governments aren’t running a household: they can simply loan themselves the money for whatever they want.

It gets paid back through economic group with. Austerity dampens growth so really not good economic strategy.

zoemum2006 · 05/03/2021 21:15

Economic growth!

Pepperminttea16 · 05/03/2021 21:16

Tax the rich

ThrowingAShellstrop · 05/03/2021 21:18

From the side of that fucking bus.

rawalpindithelabrador · 05/03/2021 21:20

Applauds MrsTerryPratchett.

ThrowingAShellstrop · 05/03/2021 21:20

@parallax80

They had to wear bin bags for PPE.

The bit that got really weird was when we ran out of gowns and it was suggested in all seriousness that we could use shrouds as an alternative.

The idea of going to intubate someone in Resus while dressed in a shroud (the ones with the frilly neck bit) was one of the least expected parts of my career so far.

So that’s where all the shrouds went all of a sudden 😂
Newchances · 05/03/2021 21:21

@User133847

Why would ALL NHS staff get that rise? It's nurses and frontline workers (paramedics etc) who deserve better pay anyway and deserve a reward for all they've done and been through this year. They've gone above and beyond. We also need a lot more of them and a decent salary will entice more qualified people to the profession.

I have friends and family who work for the NHS but have been working from home for 12 months doing clerical duties. Why would they get the same reward as a nurse?

Who decides who is worthy and who is not? Do you think a physio or ot doesn't work as hard as a nurse? Or a social worker helping keep someone at home so they don't block an acute bed?
Maxellious · 05/03/2021 21:24

I don't disagree that some NHS staff should be paid more (eg front line staff, not the senior management). But I do have a problem with the ideology of "they deserve a pay rise because they did the job they were trained to do during an event that they should have been trained for". A meaningful bonus for past year, sure but otherwise, why weren't firemen given a pay rise after Grenfell? Or policemen the next time there is significant unrest?

Plus, lots of NHS staff haven't been touched by the pandemic. In my family: an NHS dietician who has WFH the whole time doing phone consultations and giving training via Teams and an admin staff rearranging surgery appointments from home, they have both said that (for them personally) that the past year has been the most relaxed workwise they have had for years. Neither feel like they deserveanyy special recognition for being NHS and are a bit embarrassed by the whole NHS hero's thing: they feel like frauds when it's put on them.

We need a better system to reward and protect those who have been on the pandemic front line.

Sometimes123 · 05/03/2021 21:28

The focus is on the NHS, and quite rightly so, they've worked hard...but so have every other keyworker on the front line. although to be honest, are you telling me that the British public are going to support a massive pay rise for nurses, when a significant amount of the public have lost their jobs? I will take this opportunity to remind you that the social care sector are struggling to pay their front line staff the minimum wage. And I will remind you that our social care staff are as valuable as nursing care in the delivery of health and social care. Now is not the right time to be demanding money. I stand on my cardboard box and shout "equality for all keyworkers who have fought and suffered through this pandemic....from your Police Officers, to the people making sure you could eat, to the 24 hour care staff that look after the most vulnerable in this society." Tell me that an entry level nurse earning £19k a year deserves a bigger pay rise than a care worker earning £12k, although they have seen the same devastation of covid, , they have been dutifully on 24 hour duty, they have tolerated the same emotional hardships.. .they see the same shadows of death before they go to sleep. There was a senior nurse on TV today saying that nurses would quit......well quit then! If you cared, you wouldn't quit, just like the care home staff wont quit....although their pay rise is none existent.

TomHardyAndMe · 05/03/2021 21:29

By their own modelling 90% of the impact Test and Trace have had has been from people isolating before T+T even contacted them.

The £37bn spaffed at Dido Harding is the equivalent of £125k PER NURSE. They didn’t seem to have any issues finding that money.

Warsawa31 · 05/03/2021 21:30

The front line nhs staff deserve a payrise, personally if thy got 12.5% I'd be fine with it.

how we can find the money to renew trident but not to properly reward people who have helped us through a pandemic is beyond me.

It's always choice but those who make them will want you to think that they have no other option - 1% is an insult

BikeRunSki · 05/03/2021 21:33

@StiggyZardust

From the HS2 budget?
Totally agree
Buccanarab · 05/03/2021 21:33

There's lots of places it could come from, but there's one place it most certainly will never come from and thats the Tory party!

SO STOP FUCKING VOTING THEM IN!!!

peak2021 · 05/03/2021 21:35

How much is it that is required per year?

Livelovebehappy · 05/03/2021 21:35

It’s crap, but 1% is 1% more than the majority of other employees are going to get this year.