Is so hard to address a woman as ‘Ms’?!

[skwish]

I’m married, but have kept my maiden name. Eldest DC has ex-P’s surname, younger ones have DH’s. Recently moved to country from big city (south of England do not exactly the Moon). DCs’ primary school staff INSIST on either calling me Mrs DH or Miss Skwish (having taken some time to stop addressing me as Mrs Ex-P). Despite many reminders, they just will not address me as Ms Skwish, which as a grown woman in her 40s, I expect to have used as default. Now seem to gravitate towards Miss Skwish which I find infantilising and offensive, as well as inaccurate.

Quietly fume every time this happens, and have now been tipped over the edge by DC1’s new secondary school, who have just addressed me as Mrs Ex-P in a reply to an email, from me , despite me signing as Firstname Skwish.

Is Ms just a city thing? Have I gone into some weird time warp? Surely Ms is normal and polite and default everywhere? AIBU?

For me it is, makes my sinuses buzz funny which makes me go cross-eyed if I try to say it

Then you are either pronouncing it incorrectly (hopefully some of the posts above are helpful) or you have the same problem pronouncing common words like ‘fizz’ if you’re going with the ‘mizz’ pronunciation or ‘business’ and ‘Mrs’ if with more of a schwa. In which case have you discussed it with your GP?

The latter pronunciation is just ‘Mrs’ with ‘iss’ taken out.

@PurplePrimula

"Is so hard to address a woman as ‘Ms’?!"

For me it is, makes my sinuses buzz funny which makes me go cross-eyed if I try to say it.

This is thread is so ridiculous that I can't tell if you're being facetious or not.

@G5000

Every time this topic comes up, there are people claiming that it's impossible to say and they simply can't make this odd sound. I really don't get it - I'm not a native English speaker, but if you can say for example Liz, it should be quite possible for your mouth to also form the sounds necessary for Miz. No?

The thing is people are full of shit. Of course, they can say it. They all know it's sexist old tripe. But they like it. So rather than say "yes, it's sexist old tripe but I like it". They make up silly bugger excises for why they can't say it.

See also every thread where some woman spent 12 years waiting for the Disney land proposal rather than ask her partner if he would like to get married.

engagement ring threads

Changing your name because only women have terrible unpronounceable names

Getting your dad's permission for marriage

@JassyRadlett

I hate Ms, it’s revolting

I hate Mrs, it’s a disgusting relic of a misogynistic society that tied women’s value to their marital status.

Of course I don’t think that, because I know peoples choices and preferences are more complex than that. And because I’m not batshit crazy enough to find a title revolting, but do you see how silly and rude you sound?

Ms is fine. It’s not for you, cool, but it’s a normal word and an accepted title for those who don’t wish to share their marital status with the gas company. If you truly do find it revolts you, I’d suggest counselling to investigate why that is.

Amen to this.

People wanting to be addressed by their marital designation, fine.

But people who tell women that its "revolting" to want to have a designation which doesn't disclose their marital designation: have a word with yourselves.

If you deep down actually think its "revolting" not to want to be pigeonholed according to your marital status you have some serious adjustments to make for you to deal with modern life.

I really don’t like Ms. (Although of course, that’s personal and if you prefer it, they should address you as it!).

It really pisses me off that men automatically get upgraded to "Mr" once they are adults, but an unmarried woman (or one who retains her maiden name, every!) doesn't get that automatic courtesy.

Both my SILs have kept their maiden names. On cards for Xmas, anniversaries etc I just address the envelope to Mr X and Ms Y - it’s not exactly difficult . Plus I kind of like being the only Mrs X in the family (MIL deceased).

I use Ms to address others if I'm not sure what they prefer - I work in clinical academia so a lot of people are Dr or Prof, and senior clinical staff are often Ms. It baffles me how many times I have to correct people about my title - often online forms only have Mr/Mrs/Miss, so I can't have my correct title (Dr), or the one I'd choose if Dr not an option (Ms). I have quite a few female friends, all Drs, who have had to correct banks/utility companies/other suppliers for addressing post to 'Dr and Mrs Surname' when it is most definitely not the husband who has the earned the doctorate! In many respects it would be easier if we abandoned the use of titles (outside of professions where they have a purpose) completely.

I work in a school, so I get referred to as ‘title last name’ a lot. I want to be Ms, I am in the school system as ‘Ms’ but I repeatedly get referred to as ‘Miss HalfTerm’ by other members of staff. They all know that I refer to myself as Ms HalfTerm so I’m not sure why they insist on using Miss. I haven’t felt the need to make things awkward by saying anything but it does annoy me a bit. I look quite young for my age so I wonder if that has something to do with it.

YABU. Ms is not the default and I would correct anyone who dared call me it; I’m a Mrs.

It’s really quite simple; if you’re unmarried you’re a Miss, if you’re married you’re a Mrs, if you’re divorced you’re a Ms whether you like it or not.

YABU - what's in a name? Why should the school, when you already have kids with different names, be vilified for not remembering that you have a completely different name and that you want to be known as Ms.

However in the case of the email, they should have replied using the name you signed off as.

It really pisses me off that men automatically get upgraded to "Mr" once they are adults, but an unmarried woman (or one who retains her maiden name, every!) doesn't get that automatic courtesy.

That’s exactly why some of us switch to Ms when we become adults.

I know you said you don’t like it, I’m quite curious about why?

It’s really quite simple; if you’re unmarried you’re a Miss, if you’re married you’re a Mrs, if you’re divorced you’re a Ms whether you like it or not.

No sweetie. I’m really sorry, but that’s not how it works here in the 21st century.

Whether you like it or not.

@emilyfrost

YABU. Ms is not the default and I would correct anyone who dared call me it; I’m a Mrs.

It’s really quite simple; if you’re unmarried you’re a Miss, if you’re married you’re a Mrs, if you’re divorced you’re a Ms whether you like it or not.

I object to being called Miss when I am in my 40s. It's demeaning and sexist- a male will be called Mr. from about 18 onwards, regardless of martial status.

That said, there is no alternative I like, so I put up with it.

And a divorced woman can continue to be "Mrs", or choose to be "Miss" or "Ms". It doesn't default to "Ms" as soon as the decree absolute comes through the door.

I have never seen or heard Ms used except in fiction.

I don’t think it’s a city thing either, seeing as I lived in London 30 yrs and worked in the City. It might be an American thing but I’m not sure it’s a thing at all.

Stop fuming and tell people what surname they shoukd use for you. But yabu if you expect them to use ‘Ms’ it’s a made up word that never really got traction and is just not something many people say, so would feel like a special word just for you.

YANBU, I'm married, very happily, but I use Ms. I don't understand why no one needs to know if my husband is married but just because I'm a woman my name and title tell anyone my marital status.

It particularly annoys me at work.

@emilyfrost It’s really quite simple; if you’re unmarried you’re a Miss, if you’re married you’re a Mrs, if you’re divorced you’re a Ms whether you like it or not.

And as I said to @Chloemol, that hasn't been true since the previous century. Whether you like it or not, Ms is now the global neutral default in English-speaking countries and hasn't been used for divorced women since the 1980s.

Equally, there is absolutely no legal requirement for anyone to use any of the title options, so 'whether you like it or not' doesn't come into it. Unless it's one of the titles bestowed by the Queen, the church or the military, your title is exactly what you choose it to be. So by all means choose Mrs. I don't.

My choice would be no title. I always introduce myself as first name or first name last name so prefer to be addressed by my first name. I can't stand it when web forms have title as a mandatory field, titles seem old fashioned and unnecessary to me. I took the piss out of my husband earlier for introducing himself as Mr Bloomindale when he called a service provider.

often online forms only have Mr/Mrs/Miss, so I can't have my correct title (Dr)

My favourite ones are the forms that won't accept both Dr and sex:female.

I can't stand being called Ms...

@emilyfrost

YABU. Ms is not the default and I would correct anyone who dared call me it; I’m a Mrs.

It’s really quite simple; if you’re unmarried you’re a Miss, if you’re married you’re a Mrs, if you’re divorced you’re a Ms whether you like it or not.

You're quite simply wrong.

@Skysblue I'm quite surprised you don't meet many women who choose to use Ms. Most women I meet use it. Do you work? Because it seems more common in the professional setting.

Maybe because I work in medical academia most people are Dr or Prof., but the women who aren't are usually Ms. I rarely find a Miss or Mrs at work.

Ms is horrendous. I would immediately correct someone and ask them to call me by my first name. I am not a middle aged spinster.

Titles are a load of bollocks.

Annoys me the opposite way. I’m Mrs Plummer but a few subscriptions/institutes address me as ‘Ms’. I changed from ‘Miss’ when I got married and they use my new, correct surname so why assume I don’t want to be ‘Mrs’?

I think it is infuriatingly rude not to address you as you have requested them to. I would be misaddressing my letters to the head and the admin team (Mr if it's a woman etc) and complaining until they stop.