Is so hard to address a woman as ‘Ms’?!

[skwish]

I’m married, but have kept my maiden name. Eldest DC has ex-P’s surname, younger ones have DH’s. Recently moved to country from big city (south of England do not exactly the Moon). DCs’ primary school staff INSIST on either calling me Mrs DH or Miss Skwish (having taken some time to stop addressing me as Mrs Ex-P). Despite many reminders, they just will not address me as Ms Skwish, which as a grown woman in her 40s, I expect to have used as default. Now seem to gravitate towards Miss Skwish which I find infantilising and offensive, as well as inaccurate.

Quietly fume every time this happens, and have now been tipped over the edge by DC1’s new secondary school, who have just addressed me as Mrs Ex-P in a reply to an email, from me , despite me signing as Firstname Skwish.

Is Ms just a city thing? Have I gone into some weird time warp? Surely Ms is normal and polite and default everywhere? AIBU?

[Catlover77]

@DinosaurDiana

Its time we had a one fits all title, like Mr.

We do - it’s Ms

My female family members are all Ms, whether single or married

[MrMahoneysPants]

Well we would if people would use it and use it correctly.

[MoominFeatures]

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels

I can't stand being called Ms. I don't agree that it should be the default at all. You don't get to decide other people's preferences because of what yours is.

This

[Catlover77]

@MrMahoneysPants

If you have been married you are Mrs, if you have not been married it’s Miss

Gosh. It's like feminism never happened.

[JassyRadlett]

I hate Ms, it’s revolting

I hate Mrs, it’s a disgusting relic of a misogynistic society that tied women’s value to their marital status.

Of course I don’t think that, because I know peoples choices and preferences are more complex than that. And because I’m not batshit crazy enough to find a title revolting, but do you see how silly and rude you sound?

Ms is fine. It’s not for you, cool, but it’s a normal word and an accepted title for those who don’t wish to share their marital status with the gas company. If you truly do find it revolts you, I’d suggest counselling to investigate why that is.

[birdglasspen]

The problem is there are 3 different titles, Miss, Ms, Mrs and no one agrees exactly what they mean. For some people Mrs may mean you are married or may mean you are "older". I know plenty older people who wouldn't even think to use Ms. They just need scrapped, men are just Mr why do we need all these titles! It is also hard to know how to address someone if you know only their name and not their preference. For example when I take bookings and people leave only their name but then I have to address an email to them for example I have no idea what they are unless it's a man I can write, Mr.

[EventuallyDeleted]

I'm finding more and more people do default to Ms now, which is a good thing in my view (obviously using Miss/Mrs if requested) but there seems to be a 50/50 pronounciation split between Mzz and Mizz so it can be hard to tell sometimes. I do find it irritating if people call me Mrs without checking first but that doesn't happen so often now.

[DuckonaBike]

Yes MrMahoneys makes a good point - women are addressed according to their marital status, and men are not. This is the problem. That’s why Ms should be the default for women. It’s the equivalent of Mr.

[MrMahoneysPants]

I am so curious about the revolting comment myself. Revolting. As though you were addressing someone as Madame ShitFace.

Hmm. I quite like Madame actually. Id consider that an acceptable alternative to Ms if people can't get past their inability to pronounce Mizz.

[Iorderedyouapancake]

The trouble is those who get offended (or revolted- how ridiculous!) by the use of ms push the rest of us into the situation where we are expected to disclose our marital situation in circumstances where it’s totally irrelevant - if ms was the default and anyone who didn’t like that could request to be miss or mrs then we could move to a situation where only those who want to announce their marital status by their title; because so many women claim to be offended by ms we all end up being asked to disclose just to keep those people happy

[JassyRadlett]

We should change and use Mrs to indicate an adult woman in the same way the French and German have done. I have never been married but use Mrs in most circumstances.

I actually think we’ve gone too far - or at least are currently too far - for that to happen. All the titles are too loaded. Where ‘Mrs’ for some is felt to be a badge of pride - what happens when that meaning is taken away? Where ‘Mrs’ and ‘Miss’ for others just feel too rooted in misogyny to sit comfortably. And for others, they associate ‘Ms’ with divorce or strident feminism (or pronouncing it like a demented insect to demonstrate their disdain.)

(I’m in the strident feminist camp, myself, and frankly Mrs carries so much baggage that I would hate it.)

[changi]

I use Mrs. Before that I used Miss.

I'll correct anybody who calls me Ms. It doesn't happen that often though.

[Notabove25]

I do find it difficult actually. It's really awkward and unnatural to say out loud. In their shoes I'd try not to get your name wrong but I'd also be trying to avoid having to say Ms.

[InTheMiddle23]

I'm happy for anyone to address me on a first name basis.

[PickleC]

Have been a Ms since I was 18 - unmarried and Miss feels to me like a title for a child. But would retain it even if I was married given my status is nobody's business. Only time its been an issue is if you get asked 'Is that Miss or Mrs' and you are made to feel arsey saying 'Its Ms' when it should be offered as an option naturally

[Notabove25]

I don't for a minute think women should he addressed as their marital status, I just wish there was a better word.

[MrMahoneysPants]

Also Ms is the default in other English speaking countries like the states. And with everyone dealing with each other globally now it would be more confusing. I'm not sure why the UK can't start using it correctly.
I think part of the problem is that Miss/Master are still used for children on doctor's surgery info and school stuff, If we started using it for teens it would be something they grew up with. There is really no reason for a child to have a title so I find that odd anyway

[JassyRadlett]

I do find it difficult actually. It's really awkward and unnatural to say out loud. In their shoes I'd try not to get your name wrong but I'd also be trying to avoid having to say Ms.

Do you also have trouble with fizz? Tizz? Liz?

Ms to rhyme with any of those is fine, and pretty standard. Others do a sort of ‘Muzz’ with a scwha where I’ve put the ‘u’ there.

No one who isn’t setting out to be offensive or belittling says ‘Mzzzzz’.

[MrMahoneysPants]

@Notabove25

I do find it difficult actually. It's really awkward and unnatural to say out loud. In their shoes I'd try not to get your name wrong but I'd also be trying to avoid having to say Ms.

Can you say 'business'?


Then you can say Ms.

[PurplePrimula]

"Is so hard to address a woman as ‘Ms’?!"

For me it is, makes my sinuses buzz funny which makes me go cross-eyed if I try to say it.

[EventuallyDeleted]

I use Ms but would accept Mrs if it became the default for all adult women and not just the married ones. It's not so much the title I dislike, just the way it's used to indicate marital status.

[Changednamesorry]

One solution to this conundrum would be to do what is done in other countries and just address all teachers by their first names.
My sons' school is like this. Easy.

[MrMahoneysPants]

I was Ms before I got married and then got married reasonably young and still used Ms.


I found it quite at 20/21 when people would ask my title and I would say "Ms" and get 'divorced' with a head tilt? and confused look.

[MoominFeatures]

I don’t really get this discussion. If you find yourself in a situation in which you feel it is appropriate to address someone by a title, but you don’t know for sure what that title is, surely you just ask rather than running the risk of offending/niggling someone by presuming and getting it wrong?!

Seriously, though, other than in a school environment or at the bar (meaning in court, not Wetherspoons), in what scenario does this quandary even come up? I genuinely cannot remember the last time anyone attempted to address me by a title. I note a PP’s comment that they are often used a “professional” context but their use is certainly not the norm in my (very traditional) profession - practitioners address each other by name.

[G5000]

Every time this topic comes up, there are people claiming that it's impossible to say and they simply can't make this odd sound. I really don't get it - I'm not a native English speaker, but if you can say for example Liz, it should be quite possible for your mouth to also form the sounds necessary for Miz. No?