Is so hard to address a woman as ‘Ms’?!

[skwish]

I’m married, but have kept my maiden name. Eldest DC has ex-P’s surname, younger ones have DH’s. Recently moved to country from big city (south of England do not exactly the Moon). DCs’ primary school staff INSIST on either calling me Mrs DH or Miss Skwish (having taken some time to stop addressing me as Mrs Ex-P). Despite many reminders, they just will not address me as Ms Skwish, which as a grown woman in her 40s, I expect to have used as default. Now seem to gravitate towards Miss Skwish which I find infantilising and offensive, as well as inaccurate.

Quietly fume every time this happens, and have now been tipped over the edge by DC1’s new secondary school, who have just addressed me as Mrs Ex-P in a reply to an email, from me , despite me signing as Firstname Skwish.

Is Ms just a city thing? Have I gone into some weird time warp? Surely Ms is normal and polite and default everywhere? AIBU?

I haven't read it all but I find it extraordinary when people can't note and remember a woman's preferred title beit Ms, Miss or Mrs.

The same people never seem to have an issue about using a man's correct title beit: Mr, Dr, Rev'd, Colonel, Sir, etc. However those same people seem also incapable of managing to properly address a woman who happens to be: Dr, Rev'd, Colonel, Dame, Professor, etc.

Strange that. My preference is Mrs and I find it extraordinary that many people to whom I have never been introduced and don't know socially think they may use my first name or call me love, whilst addressing a man with his title.

Sarah is fine.
I don't need Mrs. Rainbow Ms. Rainbow or Miss.
I am Mrs. Though but it wouldn't offend me.

I’ve used Ms since my 20s. I never thought it was anything to do with being divorced or old and still single. Everyone I know who used it (lots in my professional life) were not divorced, just either didn’t take their Hs name or were unmarried. All were in 20s and 30s so I don’t think anyone was worried about being seen as some dried up husk of a woman who’d tragically never achieved marriage or worse, divorced.

I much prefer Ms. I've never married but get called 'Mrs' quite often in calls. Really annoys me as it just presumes. I'm not a 'miss' either as I am not waiting to be married. Ms does me fine. :)

There was a lesbian teacher at my primary school that went by Ms so I always thought it meant you were a lesbian. I've never heard anyone use it since. Everyone used to forget it was Ms and she would go mad about it, I could never see the big deal tbh. As long as no one is calling me anything insulting i don't care if they use Miss Mrs or Ms. At school I'm called Miss by the students all the time but I'm married.

I think its just that Miss rolls off the tongue better than Ms. For some reason I always get Mrs even though I am actually Miss.

Just skimmed through the thread and hadn’t realised there were so many people who felt so strongly against Ms. I use it all the time. I just assumed that it was widely accepted now as the female equivalent of Mr.

I have been a Ms for as long as I can remember. I am married but that’s nobody else’s business. I haven’t taken my husband’s name, but my children have.

I do get called Mrs, or get called by my husbands surname, and it really doesn’t bother me that much and I wouldn’t think to complain about it.

I work in a school where we get called Miss and Sir. It was strange being called Miss at first but I am used to it now. I think schools like to keep the formality, and using first names in front of students is definitely not seen as appropriate.

The school database we use does record whatever is filled in on the application form (Mrs, Mr, Dr, Ms etc). So for official letters i can include the specified salutation. But we have hundreds of children in school and if I was talking to a parent there’s absolutely no way I would be able to remember how they had requested to be addressed. There are so many different family set-ups; and we also have many families from other countries where their surnames don’t follow the same rules as the U.K. (Spain for example). I try my best, but I am sure I’ve got it wrong sometimes, and would hope that people would realise this and understand.

I took exHs name when we married but I've never used the title Mrs. I've always been Ms 'ExHSurname' since marrying. Before then, I was Ms 'Dad'sSurname'.

I live in a progressive area of the US where people are alert to preferred titles and tend to respect them.

It saddens me that Ms doesn't seem to have gained the traction necessary to be used and understood widely.

I've seen many people here on MN labouring under the misapprehension that it's a title for divorced women. Or lesbians.

No, it's a title for women who don't like that they are forced under the Miss/ Mrs binary system to advertise their marital status every time they fill out a form, and can't see why only men get to keep that information private.

I've seen many people here on MN labouring under the misapprehension that it's a title for divorced women. Or lesbians.

Got to say, as a title it’s doing a hell of a lot of hard work. Just ok this thread, it’s only for lesbians, or divorced women, or ‘spinsters’, or woman ashamed of not being married.

Quite a burden for two little letters that don’t mean any of those things.

@JassyRadlett

I've seen many people here on MN labouring under the misapprehension that it's a title for divorced women. Or lesbians.

Got to say, as a title it’s doing a hell of a lot of hard work. Just ok this thread, it’s only for lesbians, or divorced women, or ‘spinsters’, or woman ashamed of not being married.

Quite a burden for two little letters that don’t mean any of those things.

This.

And someone also said young right-on teachers.
So you could really put it all together under the umbrella of...hmm...women?

It's been brought up a couple of times on this thread and just mentioned again so I'm outraged all over again by the common practice of male teachers being referred to as Sir - a title they certainly haven't earned but with a whole pile of respect and clout behind it - while female teachers are Miss. The lowest ranked of female titles, that of the little girl. How was this ever allowed to become common practice, and why do women teachers tolerate it?

My DC’s old school used to call me Mrs maiden name which just made me feel old, that’s my Grandma! I’m also a married Ms who kept her maiden name and my DC also have my name. New school play it safe and I just get called x’s Mum.

Here in Australia, we have had huge scandals with several rape allegations in Parliament House. 😡😡😡 Our PM’s office has done a lovely job of trying to cover it all up, and of course the texts and paper trails have proved this. The PM has wheeled out the old, “As a father....” response.... Australian women (especially survivors of SA) are so sick of men only being able to relate to us in relation to themselves!!! It’s not about them! Do we not exist simply as people??? No wonder we want the right to be called by the Ms. title if that is the name we have chosen!

Goodness @AnnieLobeseder I was thinking about you this morning and hoping you got your PhD. I haven't seen you on here for years. Hope all's well.

I'm single. My surname is different from my DC's (father's surname). They call me Mrs Doyoumind. I don't understand why. Neither I nor DC have ever given them any reason to think I am or ever have been married to a Mr Doyoumind.

*By they I mean school!

I think there should be just Mr and Ms, that's it. Why do women have to reveal their marital status every time in a public space?

@RosesAndHellebores

Goodness *@AnnieLobeseder* I was thinking about you this morning and hoping you got your PhD. I haven't seen you on here for years. Hope all's well.

Hi @RosesAndHellebores! Did you go by another name before? It's been so long I hardly remember anyone. Not sure why I've wandered back but having fun so far!

Yes, finally got that PhD a few years ago now. And can confirm that it is incredibly satisfying to answer " Is that Mrs or Miss?" with "Doctor".

I always think it’s used by older ladies that are embarrassed that they’ve not been married

Just maybe it might be a honorific for "ladies" of any age who are not remotely embarrassed that they've not been married? For whom whether they've been married or not doesn't amount to a hill of beans?

Now there's a thought....

I'm a Ms I'm not fussed what the call me as long as they dont still refer to me as Mrs exh name. I've been divorced long enough now.

I'm a middle aged spinster I've flip-flopped between Ms and Miss since my 20s. I too thought sometimes that Ms was a bit of a 'I'm ashamed not to be married so I am covering up by using Ms' so was using Miss to try and show that I was single and that wasn't a problem for me.

I'll be sticking to Ms though from now on, having read this thread. And thank you to whoever it was upthread who said they saw spinsters more as 'independent women'. There are some awful comments on here about being older and unmarried. The horror!

The "ashamed to be unmarried" bit only works if Ms isn't being used by married women too. I've been Ms when single, Ms when cohabiting, Ms when we split up and Ms now I'm married. If he departs at some point I'll still be Ms.

IcelandThree

"There are some awful comments on here about being older and unmarried. The horror!"

I know. There was a comment upthread from someone describing Ms as "revolting". I thought I was unshockable but that genuinely shocked me.

The idea that people might find an assignation that signals that your marital status isn't relevant is "revolting" just left me speechless. Oh and the woman who thought single parenthood was down to "hedonism".

It's like the past 60 years never happened....