Screaming and shouting in a relationship

[cocowhite]

Is it normal for one person to loose their temper and scream and shout at the other person in the relationship?

I absolutely hate it - I've made this very clear that I hate it and it makes me unhappy. But I'm told that I'm living in romance land and that it's completely normal for screaming and shouting during an argument if if one person loses their temper.

From what I read on Mumsnet it's classed as "verbal abuse" sometimes I wonder if that actually living in the real world as surely all human beings lose it from time to time?

However I'm so at odds with that and whether to accept this any further. I'm in a 6 year relationship lockdown has been so testing.

I just don't know if I'm being unreasonable in thinking we can always discuss things and even argue like adults without aggressive shouting and screaming - or am I in cloud cuckoo land? Or is it basically whatever your comfortable with is ok?

Dear @cocowhite

I have read your thread with a increasing sadness at the treatment you have been receiving from your partner.

You should not have to tolerate verbal abuse someone who, supposedly loves you, having a screaming match with you 2-3 times a year nor 2-3 times a month - let alone 2-3 times a week. How is that showing love? He once threatened physical violence - to smash your head in? He must have realised he went too far that time when you left temporarily but how does one forget or forgive something like that, or the threat he may one day follow through? He thought it, he articulated it - what's the next step?

He obviously sees no wrong in "smashing" you verbally or belittling you, making you feel small in front of your frightened children, nor sees that he has to change even a little bit for their sake.

I am glad you are reconsidering your future with him and getting your ducks in a row. I could not contemplate marriage to someone like this. It would be too exhausting and too scary. It will be hard, emotionally, but ultimately is, surely, the best thing for you and your children.

Whilst you are getting your finances, etc together do, please, be discreet about your plans - he may not take at all kindly to you making a permanent move.

Good luck and strength for a better future. 🌹

It doesn’t matter if shouting is ‘normal’ in some people’s relationships.

It’s not OK for you, and that’s all that matters. And anyone saying you’re living in dreamworld to expect it is dysfunctional.

My parents never shouted, DH doesn’t shout, and none of my exes shouted either. I’ve never been in a shouty relationship, and it would be an absolutely deal-breaker for me.

Glad to hear that you’re not financially dependent on him.

Thank you. I've woken up with that feeling of dread that my relationship really could be over. I am not excusing any of what he has done, there are many good times in our relationship, he idolises his son, he does more childcare than me as I work long hours, he pulls his weight around the house - probably more than me due to my work, deep down he has a kind heart and moral compass, intellectually we match and can have deep conversations, I just think over time he's not been able to control his anger and communication style and each time it's happened I suppose it's become a little bit more accepted because I stay.

My daughter spoke to me last night (she's a teenager now) and I raised it with her as I'd seen her face when he screamed at me earlier. She said "oh yes mum that was so unnecessary" even she as a child recognised it came out of nowhere and isn't normal. She asked me if it happens when she not here so she obviously hasn't been aware of the extent of how bad it is when he kicks off before.

I do feel like I need to give him a chance to change his ways - I know I don't owe him it but I want to be sure I tried before splitting up the family.

I am going to be planning whilst this happens so that I am ready to make a move when/if it doesn't work.

Are you going to talk to him about it, and explain that you’re on the verge of leaving and splitting your family up over this issue?

Because otherwise - why is this shouty episode any different from the zillion that have gone before and will come again?

Is there a way to fix this?

Yes but it has to come from him. You cant fix it

The best thing you can do for your teenage daughter is to give her a calm safe environment in which to grow up in. As she gets older do you really think he is going to relate calmly to her in a disagreement? He has had many years of practice in shouting and abusing to control the misbehaving women in his life. I felt chilled when I read he had threatened you with violence. Even if you feel he didn't mean it. You say this is a 'dealbreaker' for you but it isn't really is it as you are still there...

@23PissOffAvenueWF yes absolutely. I'm telling him that this is the final opportunity and I mean it.

I need to find a time to talk to him without being interrupted by the kids - it might need to be the weekend. He is going to know there is something up with me before then though. My whole outlook has changed - I can envisage myself out of this relationship now and I'm allowing those thoughts and plans into my head - in the past I've ignored the thoughts and not let myself go there If that makes sense

I thought it was normal as I grew up with it, and hated it, when I mimicked that behaviour early in our relationship DH made it very clear to me it wasn't acceptable. I've never shouted at him since, we've argued of course, but it's not a constructive form of communication, nor is swearing or name calling.

I grew up with parents who have shouting matches. My DD is far worse than my DM. I used to hate it as a child.

It’s pushed me into not accepting shouting directed towards me as an adult. I just couldn’t be with someone like that. Embarrassingly if it does happen, I’m likely to cry! Completely involuntarily.

Sadly my sister went the other way and has accepted several abusive and volatile relationships. If you have DC, you are modelling your relationship to them. They are learning from you both what is acceptable behaviour. If you wouldn’t want them to grow up and into a relationship like this, please seriously consider leaving him.

It’s not just the shouting is it? It’s the silent treatment after. Am glad you can see an alternative way forward if he can’t change. It won’t be you who broke the family that will be him.

Shouting from a partner in one of my relationships - we made each other worse as I'd withdraw and it was a harrowing time, so not normal.
I now live next door to a couple - when I say she screams, I mean SCREAMS. It is horrible to listen to the way she screams at her husband and kids. Not normal or healthy at all. Never hear him or kids just her but it must be nerve jangling to live like that.

Well done op. I'd guess he might improve for a while and then repeat. Really, do get him into counselling, he needs to learn communication that doesn't hurt you. Good luck

It's not normal for me. There are ways to lose your temper and show your anger without being aggressive. Because shouting is aggressive. You can say 'I'm really angry' or whatever.
But it is normal for him and that's the key. It's all he has known. He wont be able to change until he acknowledges it's an issue, he wants to change, and he has intensive therapy to fix it

@Meowchickameowmeow

Shouting, screaming and the silent treatment are all abusive behaviours. It's not normal and it shouldn't be tolerated. I grew up with parents that regularly had screaming matches and the silences could last for weeks, I dreaded coming home from school to the awful atmospheres and fear it would all kick off again. It's no way for your children to live.

Me too. I spent a lot of my childhood hiding in cupboards trying to drown out the noise. One of my earliest goals was to not be like them

Both of them still terrorise my siblings and I, though I've had more therapy than them. It is abuse and it doesn't end when childhood does, in my experience.

Me and my fiancé have shouted at each other on occasion, sometimes heated, sometimes not! We’re both passionate people, especially about each other and I think because we’re both stubborn too it makes us shout at each other in a disagreement. Tbh it’s only ever happened when alcohol is involved and can’t remember the last time we even bickered, let alone argued! We’ve been together nearly 9 years, it would take more than a shouting match for us to part ways, especially now I’m pregnant 😅 but our relationship is better than ever.

No. Some people love the drama of shouting but I hate it. My parents didn't shout at each other and I see shouting as something parents do to children when they lose it. I don't want or expect to be treated like a naughty child. Adults should have learned to control their temper and disagree and discuss issues calmly.
Shouting at other adults seems very immature.
Also what is he getting so angry about on a regular basis? Very little makes me angry enough to want to shout at my husband.
I would end a relationship early with any man who thought shouting at me when I'm next to him and he could talk normally was acceptable.

Please don’t stay, the bad definitely outweighs the good. It doesn’t get any better and you will regret that your DCs grow up thinking that’s normal. They may become anxious or perhaps even emulate the same behaviour in their own future relationships, would you want that for them? I’m not convinced that this is what you want at all and it certainly doesn’t sound loving or fulfilling for you or your DCs.

I was married for a decade to a moody shouty man who would give me the silent treatment until I caved rather than apologise. Of course he wasn’t like that when we first met. When I finally said I’d had enough and wanted out, he had a personality transplant that lasted about 6 months before the inevitable slide back into his real self.

Had a couple of years recovering and met DP. He’s not perfect, neither of us is but almost 3 years in, he has never raised his voice or sulked. If we disagree then we discuss it, if it’s really sensitive then we agree to park the conversation for a day or so until we’ve thought it through. He’s not particularly demonstrative but I always feel loved.
It’s still a novelty to me which shows how much damage my marriage did to how I saw relationships.

I often hear screamers and shouters from the next county telling us how great it is that they scream and shout and how much better it is than that SILENT COLD STEWING thing (they never do say why that's worse). This shows two parts of ignorance: the idea that it has to be one or the other, and also the idea that they're not actually causing this silent stewing in other people. I wouldn't say OP is stewing, but she certainly feels literally shouted down and unable to communicate, and extremely anxious and scared. Which nobody should have to feel in a relationship.

I'm glad you're taking action, OP. This isn't a sign of passion or honesty or any of the other guff that shouters like to pretend it is. It's just anger, weakness and an attempt to dominate the space. You don't need to be screamed and shouted at.

I hate it too.
My parents still do it to their adult children. I've had to have counselling to learn how to stand up for myself as I lived in fear for most of my life. Don't ask me why, but it does feel like being terrorised being screamed at repeatedly. They still bully my siblings. I am disgusted.

I'm so conflicted when I read about people that do shout and are able to love on from it and get over it.

Thinking about it more; it's also what he shouts and gets angry about that also upsets me. It's little tiny things (in my mind) in his these are not tiny things but we're talking things like I haven't turned the dishwasher on at an appropriate time or I've not done a household task that needs doing on his timeframe. He does do more than me and I understand his frustration that he doesn't want to be the person doing everything. It's not that I'm lazy I completely hand on heart do my fair share just sometimes not on his schedule.

He also will sometimes hold in the anger but I'll still know he's angry because he will be passive aggressive and mutter to himself in a really angry, belittling way, slamming things around and generally working himself up. If I challenge that the shouting will start as his anger levels flare.

I've talked to him in the past so many times about it and he thinks his anger is justified and that things not going how he wants them is a justified reason to be angry.

And at other times when he's calmed down and reflected and we've had a really good talk he will admit he over reacts and flies off the handle but puts it down to his personality and the fact I am very different and laid back. Mostly though he justifies it

He’s telling you loud and clear that he doesn’t see anything wrong with his behaviour and that if you challenge it, he will escalate it.
You cannot change him. But you can choose not to stay.

I would not tolerate shouting and screaming. A few girls I was friends with in uni used to do this if there was ever a row and have also gone on to have this kind of shouting/screaming relationship with their husbands. For me my DH has never ever raised his voice at me and vice versa. My parents also never fought like that. It will wear you down and it’s bad for your mental health to put up with that if you don’t have that type of personality.

I’m no longer friends with those girls from uni after being stuck in a car with one of them and her now husband with me in the back and them screaming at each other. It was horrible. So I would also consider what example you are setting any children you have and what you are putting them through.

This sounds so horrific.
You must be living on your nerves.

I think you feel shame at a second relationship failure, but the real shame will be to stay with this horror.

He does this 2 or 3 times a week.

I honestly don't know how you have lived with such stress.

He shouts, abuses you, has threatened you, then gives you the silent treatment.

That you would even think of marrying him.

Make your arrangements quietly, say what you like to him while you do, but you need to organise yourself and get those poor children out.

Think about what you’ve written OP - he shouts because the DISHWASHER wasn’t put on.

At most that should raise a tut or sigh.

There is no valid reason for slanging matches multiple times a week.

I shouted at my husband last week because he left the hob on under a pan and the smoke alarm when off. But I said ‘For God’s sake - what the fuck is going on??’ - no name calling, no belittling.

Vast difference between shouting (which I don’t like in any case) and being abusive which he clearly is.

You need to be prepared to follow through and whatever you do cancel your wedding.