Screaming and shouting in a relationship

[cocowhite]

Is it normal for one person to loose their temper and scream and shout at the other person in the relationship?

I absolutely hate it - I've made this very clear that I hate it and it makes me unhappy. But I'm told that I'm living in romance land and that it's completely normal for screaming and shouting during an argument if if one person loses their temper.

From what I read on Mumsnet it's classed as "verbal abuse" sometimes I wonder if that actually living in the real world as surely all human beings lose it from time to time?

However I'm so at odds with that and whether to accept this any further. I'm in a 6 year relationship lockdown has been so testing.

I just don't know if I'm being unreasonable in thinking we can always discuss things and even argue like adults without aggressive shouting and screaming - or am I in cloud cuckoo land? Or is it basically whatever your comfortable with is ok?

@Justmuddlingalong just us really, there is also zero affection (I am not trying to drip feed) but he's not naturally an affectionate person so no matter how many times I raise that it doesn't improve.

I'm by no means perfect but my default is not to lose my temper I'm much more laid back and tolerant (probably too much sometimes!)

All in all I'm feeling completely unloved, zero respect from him and that our relationship is going to emotionally harm the children (his take on that is that he lived in a shouty household and it did him no harm )

I'm making this relationship sound horrific aren't I - I really didn't think it was bad until I've written this all down

I left xh as we got to that point and I didn't want my children growing up in a shouty house. I would try and talk rationally but xh couldn't and I would end up shouting too out of frustration. It's not normal, and definitely not nice for anyone listening. I've never shouted and screamed before or after him!

I have been in shouty relationships and am a shouter myself, I was in a very involved, loving, passionate relationship for many years and occasionally we did really shout. It wouldn't be for lots of people but I didn't find it abusive at all. Just part of that particular dynamic. I need a quieter life these days and don't want the ups and downs of life with small kids ever again!

No it's not normal. DH and I never scream and shout at each other.

From looking at other anecdotes here, as well as my own experiences, I think I would say that shoutiness doesn't have to be a big problem (though it's a completely unproductive way to deal with issues), but if it's one-sided and / or belittling then it definitely is. Probably abusive, too.

When my family argues, it can get heated, but there's a mutual respect for each other's intelligence (we're usually arguing over politics or similar these days anyway), there's no attempt to make the other person feel small, stupid or vulnerable.

It is daft and, as a pp said, stressful though.

I can only think of 2 occasions in 40 years where we have shouted at each other . So not necessary at all.

We do this. We don't mean to but we do. I also can't think of a name or insult we haven't said to each other either. We've never ever meant it but in the heat of the moment it happens.

Pretty normal for us if very mad, but I grew up with a very volatile family (the sort that nobody would cross) so shouting was just normal. We're (mostly me, though) are working on this.

I can't believe he has the bare faced cheek to say it did him no harm!! Look what he's doing to you!

Also, no affection? I struggle to believe that single life would be worse than this

We don't but I know plenty that do.
My dB and sil constantly bicker and argue.
My friend and her dh are always shouting at each other.

I couldn't live like that but each to their own

Just don't know how I can break my family up - I know in my gut this is going to kill off any love in the long run if it continues

It absolutely will. I follow a lot of relationship articles from The Gottman Institute and they can predict with 90% accuracy which couples will stay together and which will break up.

It’s not a lack of arguments that keeps people together - we all have our little annoyances - but how you deal with them. As soon as criticism and contempt are in the room it’s game over. You can argue respectfully without resorting to name calling and nastiness. If it’s just the raised voice (although that’s unacceptable for you) that may not spell the end, but if he’s criticising your character, making sweeping generalisations like “you always xyz” or “why can’t you ever xyz?” then the shouting also has an undertone of criticism. If he’s sneering, eye rolling and generally being disrespectful then it’s contempt.

If you want to keep your family together have a read about The Four Horsemen on the Gottman Institute website and try and get him to see how damaging his behaviour is. I’m currently in a similar position with DP - there’s a huge amount of love and affection there but the disagreements are just so nasty that I can’t take it any more. And yes, he absolutely would speak to colleagues and family the same way, and has never had any consequences for it, which may be part of the problem. In fact on one famous occasion he called his boss a prick and walked away with a pay rise, so it isn’t always directed solely at the person they perceive as weak and powerless!

Yes I would consider counselling definitely to try and save things.

So it sounds like it is sometimes normal in a relationship.

The question is, I suppose, do I man up and get over it or do I maintain my opposition to it and put my foot down as to what I will accept.

I've told him multiple times I can't accept it, I even walked our a few weeks ago after he threatened violence (not a real threat but more of a "I'll smash you head in" kind of thing, I warned him the next time he ever said anything like that it's over and he was being very careful of what he said for a while.

The more I write the more embarrassed of him I am

Literally, respect and love are the basic things I look for in a relationship. What is it otherwise? (actually don't think too hard on that one, it's not pretty)

Do you find yourself altering your behaviour or what you say in order to avoid him kicking off?

I don't think it's normal for most people. Arguments and disagreements are but yelling at someone isn't.

Will he accept help? If so then it's worth trying to improve the communication. If not, unfortunately this maybe is the end of the road. You don't want to live like that forever?

My parents did it all the time.

I thought it was normal, and did it in an earlier relationship (it was a very toxic relationship on both sides: we were awful to each other)

Been with DH 20 years and I could count on one hand the amount of times either of us has shouted at the other (we don’t do screaming). And on those they were very stressful times (ie after sleep deprivation)

Leave the room, go out, don't tolerate it. Yes to relate, alone or together. So disrespectful. Make plans, sorry.

I think the fog's lifting OP. I'm so sorry you're in this awful situation. I know how strong denial is (15 years under my belt) and I know the heartbreak when you see reality

I don't think I've ever actually "lost" my temper with someone, ever. That would imply a loss of control leading to actions later regretted.

I can certainly think of occasions when I've shouted at a partner, but those have been big, serious issues, like finding out he'd banged someone else (back in the days when I used to attempt monogamy.)

I think it's important to draw a distinction, too, between swearing AT someone as opposed to just swearing.
"I'm on my fucking knees here, Derek" is very different to "You're a fucking lazy twat, Derek".

It's irrelevant if it's "normal".

You've told the person who supposedly loves you that it upsets you, and they have dismissed your feelings

@duchesspodcast I just burst into tears at what you said about being single

Thank you so much for all this advice. I'm taking it all in - every word.

I'm still not sure if I'm ready to end things - my mind is still all over the place, we have a child, we're about to get married, this couldn't be any more of a mess

You're trying to keep your family together. Imagine in years to come, the kids have left home and it's just you and him. Is that really the future you're aiming for?

@TheLeadbetterLife

From looking at other anecdotes here, as well as my own experiences, I think I would say that shoutiness doesn't have to be a big problem (though it's a completely unproductive way to deal with issues), but if it's one-sided and / or belittling then it definitely is. Probably abusive, too.

When my family argues, it can get heated, but there's a mutual respect for each other's intelligence (we're usually arguing over politics or similar these days anyway), there's no attempt to make the other person feel small, stupid or vulnerable.

It is daft and, as a pp said, stressful though.

Same.

DH and I shout and scream at each other regularly as we are both shouty argumentative people (even DS and DN are growing up the same). What we don’t do is name call or belittle.

I don’t think it’s shouting that’s the problem here but that you expressed a dislike to him belittling you and he totally ignored you.

@Justmuddlingalong no I think I'm too strong willed to change what I say to please him (I've been there and learnt a lesson) but I probably do change my actions to be more courteous towards things I know annoy him but I think that's just part and parcel of living with someone and compromising so what I'm saying it no I don't feel on egg shells but I am aware he will lose his temper quickly and start shouting and screaming