To think obtaining a nursing degree as a single mum...

[PurpleReigns]

...with 3 children and no support will be hard, but is manageable?

I applied last year and was offered a place at university, however, my marriage broke down and so I deferred to this year. I’m now starting this September. I have DC, 10, 12 and 15. No family nearby, friends that will help out on occasion, with the youngest at least. exDH not reliable with contact.

I am getting on in age and feel if I don’t do it this year that will be the end and I’ll be stuck in dead end jobs for the rest of my life. I will need to do an access course if I were to try again to start with...

I have had a few looks from people about doing it this year, so want to see what MN thinks.

AIBU to think studying a nursing degree as a single mum is achievable?

Just to add to my post, two students in my cohort were in their 50’s. It’s never too late.

Not running the streets selling guns and snorting coke.

You hope.

I joke. But actually, there are children of that age and younger getting roped into county lines and it’s made easier when they haven’t got a parent at home making sure they’re home in the evening, checking where they are and who they’re with. The other teens running these kids can spot very easily which kids will be easier to run and knowing an 11 year old had no parent at home will make them a target. It’s naive to dismiss that risk.

Speak to someone doing the course now. Course content, pressure and expectations will have changed from years ago. Will you have to do coursework? Assignments? When will you have the time or energy? What about parent's evenings etc for the younger children? When will you fit that in? What about when your 15 year old wants lifts places or to be picked up? It's not just childcare issues here it's your energy levels and wellbeing. I'm not trying to put a downer on things, I'm just being realistic. Think of your life now and how full it already is. Where does all this extra time and space come in for squeezing more into your schedule. I speak from experience being a single mum and trying something similar. I never had quiet time to do the assignments to go with it let alone juggling placements and everything else. If I were you I'd wait a while. You might find that much easier on yourself as much as the children. Single parenting is so hard. It's harder still when you throw degrees into the mix. Could you do some volunteering in a hospital to give you a full insight of the role and what you'd be signing up to?

I haven't read the full thread but just worth mentioning that you don't have to work with your mentor a 100% of the time while on placement. Most mentors will help try and accommodate you as best they can but obviously you do need to be with them as much as possible so won't be able to help entirely. Good luck op x

I agree it depends on the individual kids and the area you live in etc. There’s also an element of luck- none of us can predict that our dc would or wouldn’t become at risk in those circumstance. I just think that the teen years are very precarious years, for all sorts of reasons, and I think it’s a time when parents’ presence is needed more rather than less. I don’t think it’s the right time for a one parent family to be creating a situation where they are home less. And yes- I get how much that sucks for women because it is usually us being left with the minimum wage part time jobs juggled round childcare when dad is gone. The teen years does seem like the ideal time to retrain and take on longer hours because they don’t need babysitters but I actually don’t think it’s the right time. Again I realise how shit that is- I know- I’m living it- it pisses me off too but for my DCs I wouldn’t make that decision until they were at least 15/16. My 15 year old is worlds away from my 11 year old.

I personally think its doable. I had my 2 kids during my training and made it work for me. You have to be ridiculously organised...you can't wait until the last minute to hand in an essay, everything has to be done as early as possible incase the kids need you. I had 7x 12 week placements in the 3 years and out of the only one was unflexible.

For day shift I started at 7 so you would need to rely on the eldest getting the others up and out for school. Then I would finish around 7.30 so home for bedtime for my kids but I'm sure you would manage tea and bedtime. We always have very easy dinners when I'm on shift. On nights I would be awake by 3 to get kids from nursery (or in your case school) and have early tea and bed for mine before I left. So your eldest would have to get them to bed. I would be home from nights at 8 and have breakfast with the kids before jumping into bed.

I personally couldn't hack Monday to Friday 9-5. I work 2 shifts a week now so I'm with my kids the majority of the time. I don't have set shifts or anything but have always found nursing very family friendly. Can always get a swap if needed.
If you were full time you tend to do 3, 3 then 4 shifts a week so the vast majority of the time you are with your kids more days than not.

An alternative is to look into nursing apprenticeships if available at your Trust. So you work as a healthcare support worker and they put you through your training. You get paid your full HCSW wage and all theory is done through open University.

But you're not talking about a week, you're not even talking about a month. It's long term.

It's really not long term for the training course. Placements are max 3 months and that's for your final management placement, most of them are 4 - 6 weeks long. If I recall correctly my placements were:

1st year: (OPs kids will be 11, 13, 16)

1. 4 weeks (long shifts: so 3 days a week)
2. 2 weeks (long shifts)
3. 6 weeks (return to first placement)
4. 2 weeks (9 - 5 shifts)

2nd year: (OPs kids will be 12, 13 17)

1. 6 weeks (long shifts)
2. 4 weeks (9 - 5 shifts)
3. 8 weeks (return to first placement)
4. 2 weeks (9 - 5)

3rd year: (OPs kids will be 13, 14, 18)

1. 4 weeks (long shifts)
2. 4 weeks (long shifts)
3. 6 weeks (9 - 5 shifts)
4. 12 weeks (long shifts)

And every single placement asked me if I needed shifts to accommodate childcare issues. Students are never ever required to stay on after their finish time either. That'll be a problem for when you are qualified, and your kids will be 14, 15 and 19, so should be okay!

The NMC requirement for nursing courses is 2,300 hours of placement overall: so about 20 weeks per year, the rest of the time is spent in uni which is Mon - Fri 9 - 5, or on holidays (though not as much as other uni courses). Some unis don't do placements at all in the first year; I think a lot of them are moving towards "simulated practice", so more time in uni before going out on placement.

Not commenting on the Nursing as I don't know anything about it, and it sounds like there would be few night shifts (and if the kids dad is in the picture, presumably he could have them overnight on those days if he lives nearby).

But as a teacher I would definitely report a 16yo with an 11 and 13yo overnight alone regularly as a safeguarding concern and certainly a 13yo and 14yo alone overnight together.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be safe, but if something went wrong (e.g. one of the children was ill, or fell down the stairs etc) could be severe, and it does make the children more vulnerable if people know they are regularly home alone overnight.

For an individual parent it's a judgement call, but for a school it can't really be left to judgement and if we were aware it was happening, we would have to follow our procedures.

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy

Why can’t you leave a 12/13 year old overnight occasionally? They’re old enough to have a part time job, to be dating people, to be studying for exams. I really don’t underhand this idea of treating teenagers like toddlers?

Which planet do you live on ??

It’s too reliant on eldest though effectively requires them to be there (instead of their absent dad) year 3 eldest is away at University so OP is leaving a 13 and 14 alone overnight regularly. No sleepovers, parties, night job at McDonald’s for the eldest. It’s a huge responsibility.

I'm in my 2nd year at uni as a children's nurse, and Im a single mum to 2 boys, 12 and 5. It's hard, but I do have my mum and their dad to help especially when I'm on placement. (Which I don't think I could have done without them) Placements are quite flexible and the time flies, it's just the course workload that's the most stressful.
Good luck

Odd that the responsibility is to fall to the eldest child and not the dad...

@Anotherdayanotherdollar

Odd that the responsibility is to fall to the eldest child and not the dad...

If you’d read the OP you’d see it isn’t odd at all.

I returned to nursing when widowed, and my youngest was 13 - early shifts I left home at 06.30, night shifts I got home at 8.30. So my kids had to get themselves up and to school. Might be a problem with the younger ones

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy

Why can’t you leave a 12/13 year old overnight occasionally? They’re old enough to have a part time job, to be dating people, to be studying for exams. I really don’t underhand this idea of treating teenagers like toddlers?

What kind of 11 year olds do you know that go on dates and have part-time jobs?

A just-turned 11 year old is still in primary school! Many of them aren't even allowed to walk to school alone, let alone be left alone overnight, even if they are under the care of an older sibling.

I also don't think many schools would be happy if they found out one of their year 6 pupils was being left alone overnight with just a 15yo for company.

Nurse training is 50/50, you will spend 50% of your time on placement. I’m not in practice anymore but used to support students when I was (left a couple of yrs ago), in my Trust area you would do two practice blocks a year, about 12wks each. You need to be committed and able to work a 24/7/365 shift pattern, I’ve had students on Christmas Day, NY day, bank hols. The uni my Trust was linked with was a Mecca for mature students and so there was quite a lot of understanding re family commitments. You might want to have a think about the intake demographic of your chosen course. That said, there’s only so much flexibility that can be given and a lot of the time, you will just have to suck it up and do the off-duty you’re allocated. Is the children’s father around to share the burden?

It is doable, I’ve seen it done but it isn’t easy and will add significantly to what is already a very stressful course with a lot of emotional labour.

Btw, I realise you’re separated by ‘around’ I meant is he likely to be amenable to having the children on nights where you have to work?

I did read the op. And I see that appears acceptable that the dad can just opt out yet the oldest sibling just has to suck it up?

@Anotherdayanotherdollar no one has said it’s acceptable and it’s shameful if the dad has just chosen to opt out but that’s not going to help the OP right now is it. She can’t rely on him, she knows that so is trying to look alternatives. I have a good relationship with my exdp and he has ds 2 nights a week but I know what he’s like and I would never ever ever rely on him without having an adequate back up and when I’m
Planning childcare for a placement I confirm all the shifts with my parents so have a back up if exdp lets me down

@AlrightTreacle

But you're not talking about a week, you're not even talking about a month. It's long term.

It's really not long term for the training course. Placements are max 3 months and that's for your final management placement, most of them are 4 - 6 weeks long. If I recall correctly my placements were:

1st year: (OPs kids will be 11, 13, 16)

1. 4 weeks (long shifts: so 3 days a week)
2. 2 weeks (long shifts)
3. 6 weeks (return to first placement)
4. 2 weeks (9 - 5 shifts)

2nd year: (OPs kids will be 12, 13 17)

1. 6 weeks (long shifts)
2. 4 weeks (9 - 5 shifts)
3. 8 weeks (return to first placement)
4. 2 weeks (9 - 5)

3rd year: (OPs kids will be 13, 14, 18)

1. 4 weeks (long shifts)
2. 4 weeks (long shifts)
3. 6 weeks (9 - 5 shifts)
4. 12 weeks (long shifts)

And every single placement asked me if I needed shifts to accommodate childcare issues. Students are never ever required to stay on after their finish time either. That'll be a problem for when you are qualified, and your kids will be 14, 15 and 19, so should be okay!

The NMC requirement for nursing courses is 2,300 hours of placement overall: so about 20 weeks per year, the rest of the time is spent in uni which is Mon - Fri 9 - 5, or on holidays (though not as much as other uni courses). Some unis don't do placements at all in the first year; I think a lot of them are moving towards "simulated practice", so more time in uni before going out on placement.

Yep the uni I work at has a heavy focus on simulation as the evidence for it in terms of learning is pretty good. It takes up some of your practice hours.

A lot of universities are moving to year 1 full theory. Pros and cons of this obviously but you don't have to worry re shifts. Night shifts are minimal and won't be in your first year so you will have time to sort something out. Shame to give up on a dream just because of about 2 weeks worth of nights on average that's 7 shifts in 3 years!

Big lectures ie whole intake/cohort will predominantly be online from now on. There's no point dragging 200 plus students in for a purely didactic lecture where they're just being told theory. Seminars/tutor groups may be in classrooms but probably with a start time after 9. Skills sessions days are more like a 9-5. Your kids are amply old enough to do breakfast and tea sometimes without it becoming a safeguarding issue. Like other posters have said you're a team, I'm sure they'd want to support you.

@Anotherdayanotherdollar

I did read the op. And I see that appears acceptable that the dad can just opt out yet the oldest sibling just has to suck it up?

Of course it’s not acceptable but you just have deal with reality and work with what you’ve got.