WWYD if your DD told you this?

[ljs1979]

Name changed for this just in case the person concerned is on here.

My DD (15) has just told me that one of her friends who lives locally is having a hard time at home but doesn't know who to confide in. She said her friend (same age as my DD) is living with her Mum, step dad and little brother (aged 5), and that both her and mum are afraid of step dad. I asked why - she said he starts lots of arguments and there's always shouting in the house, and that at one point (a few months ago), stepdad held a knife to both her and Mum's throat (5 year old little boy was sleeping upstairs when this happened). She said Mum got her and her friend out of the house and they stayed with a relative for the night.

I asked had Mum phoned the police or tried to get any help? She said no, her friend told her mum is too scared to do this. Her friend made my DD "promise not to tell anyone because I don't want my step dad to go to prison". My DD asked her friend can I tell my Mum about it, as I know she'd want to help if she knew. Friend said yes you can tell your Mum but no one else (hence how I know).

This is a relatively new friend of my DD's - we moved house and she lives locally (they get on the same bus to school hence she's recently got to know her more). I asked my DD if school are aware of the situation, or if anyone at all is involved with the family to support them - she said not that she knows of, she gets the impression from her friend that Mum is too scared to involve anyone for help.

I'm posting for people's opinions as it just sits really, really uncomfortably with me, that a woman, her teenage daughter, and a little boy are at risk of harm from this man just a few miles from my house, but no one knows about it except me and DD. I desperately want to reach out to this poor woman and her kids, but would I be overstepping the mark? It's worth saying I've never met her and I don't even know where their house is (DD knows).

I've said to DD if your friend is ever worried or feels unsafe she's welcome at our house anytime - day or night - please let her know that, etc. My DD is going to pass that on.

Is there something else I should do? WWYD?

@AlexaShutUp

DD has also just told me that her friend only agreed to me knowing because my DD assured her I wouldn't tell anyone.

I think this is a good lesson to your dd that it isn't always advisable to make promises of that nature. Ask her how she would feel if something awful happened to her friend and you had done nothing to protect her. It's a very fine line to tread, as you want your dd to feel that she can confide in you about stuff, but you also need to think about safeguarding the child who is at risk.

I had a very similar situation with dd and one of her friends, and faced a similar dilemma, so I initially sought advice from the NSPCC without sharing any details about the child in question. I explained to dd that we were going to get advice from the NSPCC as professionals, and if they advised us to take the matter further, then we would have no choice but to do so. She told her friend that we couldn't just ignore the concerns, and explained that we might have to take it further if advised to do so. Friend was worried but understood. Luckily for dd, although friend had said please don't tell anyone, dd had not made that promise as we had discussed previously that keeping secrets isn't always possible when someone is potentially at risk.

I do feel a little disappointed with DD for making this assurance, but I can see how as a 15 year old when your friendship group is the most important thing in the world, you'd want to preserve it. But I also think it was perhaps part of DD's tactic to get friend to agree to her telling an adult, maybe? But yes I agree- important lesson for her.

I was told once by a school that safeguarding cannot act unless the child tells the school themselves.

They can. Schools make safeguarding referrals often because a member of staff has noticed something not quite right, it's all recorded and dealt with appropriately. It might be that one thing on it's own is not enough to make a referral but schools build up a bank of information as different things come to light and these items together can be investigated.

I have been part of a similar situation.

Your DDs friend will be terrified because she has become conditioned to keeping this secret and, whether it's been said in so many words or not, knows instinctively, that her stepfather will probably respond with rage at being 'discovered' and reported. She has learned to do anything she can to avoid his rages to protect her and her mum, so her fear will be very very real.

In your shoes, I would see if you can talk to her before you do anything else. To reassure her and to prepare her. Tell her that you understand her fear at being in the firing line of whatever may come next, but tell her that it is 1000 times better for it to kick off once now, and for that to be the beginning of the end, than for a lifetime of living in fear. Explain that you know she thinks she doesn't want to tell anyone, but ask her to put her immediate fear to one side, and think about if she would like help? Someone to step in and make it 'all go away' - because that is what this would be the beginning of.

A fifteen year old won't be seeing the big picture. Try and reassure her that there are people who know how to deal with bullies like her stepdad - that they've seen it all before - and that he is not above the law. And if you can find a way to keep her name out of it in the first instance, you will.

But now that you have the knowledge, you have to act. It's one of the few things in life, that we can't pretend we didn't know.

@ljs1979

DD has also just told me that her friend only agreed to me knowing because my DD assured her I wouldn't tell anyone. 🙈

You need to reassure your DD that the reason that people disclose abuse like this is that they want help, but are (understandably) too frightened to ask for it directly. Her friend will have lots of conflicting emotions because she is worried about betraying her mum, but she wants and needs help.

@lydia2021

I was told once by a school that safeguarding cannot act unless the child tells the school themselves. The DDs friend needs to tell the school. The mother appears to be unable to stand up to this man. The D worries stepdad will go to prison, hence, maybe worries she will fall out with her mum over it. Was the D trying to protect her mother in the knife incident. Domestic abuse is rife and unless the mother or daughter make a complaint, the stepdad can continue. In these circumstances, they need to ring 101 and speak to a police officer who will give them a crime number. The police will record all incidents, and tell ss, because even though the 5 year old appears untouched. It is not a safe environment for any of them. Important to log all incidents with 101, as these usually build up to a tragedy in the end. Mother and d must not wait until then.

Oh really.. so an anonymous report wouldn't carry any weight? They wouldn't intervene?

Yes I got the impression the girl was trying to protect Mum in the knife incident as DD said she came downstairs from her room after hearing them arguing in the kitchen, then there was "a knife to both of their throats". That's how it's been relayed to me.

Raise it with the school, they will have a whole safeguarding system that they will follow and they are linked into all other services too. There may be other little bits and pieces that they know about which when added together by someone with a fuller picture makes a coherent picture of something serious. Or not, as the case may be. The point is it is not for you to try to assess or deal.

Your responsibility is to pass on what you know to the people trained.

Tell them what your DD has told you and leave it with them. Don't get involved yourself.

I realise your DD promised, but it is a useful learning point for her that if things are bad people do need to step in. You won't be breaking her trust, you will be showing her that adults CAN be trusted to do the right and measured thing even if it involves a difficult decision.

You must report it though.

I wouldn’t bother involving nspcc - it’s very very obvious it needs referring to social services and your local council will have an out of hours duty number. You don’t have to give your name. If you really can’t do that I’d phone school first thing Monday morning and ask to speak to the designated safeguarding lead immediately. They’ll have a procedure.

@ljs1979

I would sit down with DD and do a list of pros, cons and outcomes so that she can see there's an informed decision being made - given your last post that she understands it has to be reported she sounds like a very sensible young lady (whom you should be proud of!)

Please dont bother with the NSPCC, they are a charity and work to their own agenda. The school or the Police are much more appropriate.

Reassure your DD she did nothing wrong by listening to a confidence. Neither she nor the BF are adults and they can't make this kind of decision, but it's OK not to know what to do.
You should be able to email the school's DSL now and action will be no slower than SS I wouldn't think. The school knows the family and may already have concerns.
How scary for you all, have a not very Mumsnetty hug.

You MUST report it

www.england.nhs.uk/safeguarding/how-to-raise-a-safeguarding-concern/

We are all responsible for raising concerns when we become aware of them. Imagine if something happened and you didn't pass on information. Secrets and not telling - not for safeguarding never keep secrets. If people reported information rather than keeping quiet/turning a blind eye/etc etc whether due to good intentions or not then maybe more children and adults could be saved from dying/abuse....

Raise the safeguarding concern

I realise your DD promised, but it is a useful learning point for her that if things are bad people do need to step in. You won't be breaking her trust, you will be showing her that adults CAN be trusted to do the right and measured thing even if it involves a difficult decision.

Yes, I agree. Important life lesson for her. She knew it was bad enough that I needed to know - I'm proud of her for that at least.

Could you maybe have your DD arrange an outing or get together. You, DD, her friend and mother?

Maybe the dd could tell her mum that you know and you're holding out a hand.

Inwpuld phone social services not the school because that's all the school woll do anyway and it's one less crack to slip through x

www.gov.uk/report-child-abuse

knife at the throat is abuse of the child

Maybe the dd could tell her mum that you know and you're holding out a hand.

The mum doesn't need a hand hold though (well should will in the future), it needs reporting - a hand hold may not be there at 2am if there's another incident.

This really must be dealt with by professionals.

@TheChip

Could you maybe have your DD arrange an outing or get together. You, DD, her friend and mother?

Maybe the dd could tell her mum that you know and you're holding out a hand.

She's actually just arranged to meet her friend tomorrow for a socially distanced walk / lunch outside together (Ive lost track if this is against lockdown rules but to be honest I'd rather this poor girl was out of that house!) ... I can ask her to put this to her maybe. I've never met the mum before.

Mum and daughter socially distanced walk? Maybe confiding in someone who isn't a friend might help? Would you speak to the other mum?

"Witnessing domestic violence or abuse and emotional abuse were the most commonly experienced types of abuse
England and Wales, year ending March 2019"

[quote BearEastie]@ljs1979

I would sit down with DD and do a list of pros, cons and outcomes so that she can see there's an informed decision being made - given your last post that she understands it has to be reported she sounds like a very sensible young lady (whom you should be proud of!)[/quote]

Thank you. I am proud of her! She's such a caring girl - I think she just panicked and wanted her friend to be safe so said "I'll get my mum not to tell anyone".

www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/domestic-abuse/

I do feel a little disappointed with DD for making this assurance, but I can see how as a 15 year old when your friendship group is the most important thing in the world, you'd want to preserve it. But I also think it was perhaps part of DD's tactic to get friend to agree to her telling an adult, maybe? But yes I agree- important lesson for her.

No, I totally get how difficult it is for a 15yo to be put in that position. My dd is the same age, and for whatever reason, a lot of kids confide in her about difficult stuff. Luckily, she trusts me enough to talk about what's going on (as your dd obviously trusts you), and it's even difficult for me sometimes to work out what I can hear and not act upon...it's even harder for a child to make that call.

I really don't want dd to feel that she can't trust me/it's better not to tell me stuff, because I definitely don't want her to carry the burden of hearing stuff and having nowhere to go with it. She knows that I won't breach any confidences unless I feel that I really have to - I know lots of "secrets" about her friends which I wouldn't share with their parents or the school or whatever, because it just isn't necessary. At the same time, she understands that there is some information that it would be negligent to ignore - if a child is potentially being abused, I can't just shrug my shoulders and pretend it isn't my problem, and she wouldn't really want to leave a friend in that situation anyway. Then there are the grey areas, where something sounds really concerning but it's hard to quantify the actual risk - those are the most tricky ones, but I have tried to explain to dd that we are not the experts and that we don't necessarily have all the pieces of the jigsaw, so it's better to let a professional advise us on whether we need to share the information further in order to keep her friends safe.

It's tough, though. Your dd sounds like a loyal and caring friend who is trying to do the right thing. You should be proud of her.

What about the relative they stayed with previously, they must know something isn't right within the family