Drag is the Black & White minstrel-ism of today

[Taoneusa]

How long before the appropriation and exploitation is recognised more fully ?

B&W minstrels were cliched, cartoonish, and “for entertainment”, as well, weren’t they.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I don't.

The term anything privilege as a rule angers me.

The group in society with the worst outcomes in most areas are looked after youths.

I find the idea that anyone assumes privelege based on skin colour abhorrent.

That aside, you can't criticise males from benefitting from something they didn't create.

That's fair enough if you don't believe in any of it, as I said you appear to have this massive blindspot around class analysis and I imagine that's why you're so blasé about other feminist issues. But you don't agree with privilege as a concept of being treated lesser because of your skin colour or sex, so I can see why it doesn't make sense to you. Some of your arguments are really quite men's rights activism ones.

I don't have a blind spot just a different opinion.

I absolute am a man's right activist. Absolutely. Just as I am a gay persons, a woman's, a disabled....

You see, I don't believe we need to put one down to raise the other.

Also @Ereshkigalangcleg I see you swerved my point about 'skin colour privilege' being utterly illogical when you take into account certain groups in society.

I find it utterly bizarre and really quite offensive when anyone talks about white privilege.

I may not have been racially abused, but nobody is any way qualified to tell me I am PRIVILEGED.

Tell that to your 17 year old white man in care who has nothing and no one and a pretty bleak future...but no one is really bothered about the statistics for this group, (50 percent in prison and have a look at the crime / death rates) because they're white men, so they rule the world!

[quote Level32]@RootyT00t

When you compare the statistics of a 17 year old white boy in care to the statistics of a 17 black boy in care you might understand why white privilege still absolutely applies. [/quote]
I don't disagree that racism is still applicable in this case.

But do you not think it's abhorrent to tell anyone in life they have privilege ? The term boils my blood

I may not have been racially abused, but nobody is any way qualified to tell me I am PRIVILEGED.
Tell that to your 17 year old white man in care who has nothing and no one and a pretty bleak future.

White privilege is not about what you have materialistically, it's about having the privilege of being able to step out your front door and not have to think about your skin colour, or to be discriminated against/abused just because of it.

@Mockolate

I may not have been racially abused, but nobody is any way qualified to tell me I am PRIVILEGED. Tell that to your 17 year old white man in care who has nothing and no one and a pretty bleak future.

White privilege is not about what you have materialistically, it's about having the privilege of being able to step out your front door and not have to think about your skin colour, or to be discriminated against/abused just because of it.

I still think it's an abhorrent term. Im aware thats controversial but I just do.

@RootyT00t I know some people hate the term privilege, but it just means that certain groups of people enjoy benefits that they don't even realise. It doesn't mean that white boys in care are better off than the richest black woman, but it might affect the way each is treated and perceived by society and each of those people can interact better in society if they understand the struggles of the other a bit better.

Privilege doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, but recognising it can help to understand other groups.

This gives a really good summary of some of the work/history of the topic. You don't have to love the term, but if you're interested in knowing where it comes from take a look.

https://sc.edu/study/collegesschools/socialwork/documents/professionall_development/white-privilege-feo-powerpoint.pdf

White privilege is not about what you have materialistically, it's about having the privilege of being able to step out your front door and not have to think about your skin colour, or to be discriminated against/abused just because of it.

But can you not see how this is offensive to other races who have experienced exactly the same history as Black people, but happen to be white. Are they privilaged? Racism is still actually accepted and encouraged. Travellers are still discriminated against, refused service in supermarkets, restaurants, entertainment venues. Try booking a wedding reception because if they wind you're a gypsy they'll unfortunately made a mistake and double booked, or point blank refuse.
I hope no other races are experiencing this, because it's like still being in the 60's. You can still see signs in some country pubs. Please don't talk to me about white privilage.

@Devlesko

White privilege is not about what you have materialistically, it's about having the privilege of being able to step out your front door and not have to think about your skin colour, or to be discriminated against/abused just because of it.

But can you not see how this is offensive to other races who have experienced exactly the same history as Black people, but happen to be white. Are they privilaged? Racism is still actually accepted and encouraged. Travellers are still discriminated against, refused service in supermarkets, restaurants, entertainment venues. Try booking a wedding reception because if they wind you're a gypsy they'll unfortunately made a mistake and double booked, or point blank refuse.
I hope no other races are experiencing this, because it's like still being in the 60's. You can still see signs in some country pubs. Please don't talk to me about white privilage.

Xenophobia is what you are describing. They aren’t being discriminated against because they are white, if gypsies were discriminated against because they are white then yes, you would be right that they are suffering racism. That’s not the case though, they are being discriminated against because they are gypsies which has nothing to do with them being white. It’s not about the color of their skin it’s about their background therefore it isn’t racism.

Of course white people can have hardships but it’s usually not the color of their skin that brings it on and more other things (religious background/sexuality/sex/disability etc....)

@Linning

But that doesn't mean that they haven't suffered hardships just as damaging as racism, based on another characteristic.

I honestly find the term white privilege appalling.

@Devlesko

White privilege is not about what you have materialistically, it's about having the privilege of being able to step out your front door and not have to think about your skin colour, or to be discriminated against/abused just because of it.

But can you not see how this is offensive to other races who have experienced exactly the same history as Black people, but happen to be white. Are they privilaged? Racism is still actually accepted and encouraged. Travellers are still discriminated against, refused service in supermarkets, restaurants, entertainment venues. Try booking a wedding reception because if they wind you're a gypsy they'll unfortunately made a mistake and double booked, or point blank refuse.
I hope no other races are experiencing this, because it's like still being in the 60's. You can still see signs in some country pubs. Please don't talk to me about white privilage.

Can confirm this .

Seen it happen first hand.

YANBU. I've always found drag very offensive. I didn't realise that I was still allowed to say so!

[quote RootyT00t]@Linning

But that doesn't mean that they haven't suffered hardships just as damaging as racism, based on another characteristic.

I honestly find the term white privilege appalling.[/quote]
Did I or anyone say that xenophobia is better than Racism? It’s not but misusing the term Racism to include a group of people who has a whole doesn’t suffer racism (aka White people) is damaging to people of color who have suffered racism.

Plenty of white people suffer terrible hardships, whether it’s xenophobia, homophobia, discrimination against their religion, ableism, etc... it’s not any better than suffering racism but they are NOT suffering racism. Using the wrong terminology doesn’t help them and does more damage than good.

If a white Jewish person gets murdered on the basis of being Jewish or if a white gay man get killed for being gay, by POC or fellow white people, saying that they suffered racism when they died to homophobia and antisemitism is damaging. To solve their issues you need to use the right terminology for it.

Most gypsies were murdered in WW2 by white people. So are they suffering racism or xenophobia? If the group you are describing is murdered or discriminated en mass by people of their own skin color (therefore making the skin color not the issue) then they aren’t suffering racism.

Agree with you OP

[quote RootyT00t]@Linning

But that doesn't mean that they haven't suffered hardships just as damaging as racism, based on another characteristic.

I honestly find the term white privilege appalling.[/quote]
Also the fact that you find the term white privilege appalling is irrelevant. People benefit from white privileges, how much they benefit from it depends on all the additional factors in their life (sex, religion, sexual identity, financial situation, ethnic background, ability/disability etc...) but being white will always be an advantage.

[quote Level32]@linning

I don't want to diminish your argument because I think you make a good point, but race and skin colour are not the same. Race is a historical concept and in Charles Darwins's time (so only 150 years ago) there were considered 20+ races, not skin colours, races. Gypsy and roma were considered races. So it is still racism.

Xenophobia is more to do with "foreigners" so for white British people it would apply to discrimination or caricature/stereotyping of Europeans. The "east Europeans stealing our jobs!!!!" Would be xenophobia. [/quote]
Like you say race is a concept (with which I disagree as I personally think there is only one race for humans aka the human race), but we both know that the PP was trying to make a point that WHITE people suffer racism on the basis of their skin color. That’s not the case as like stated, gypsies were murdered on mass by fellow white people, so it’s really not about white people suffering for being white and very much for people being discriminated against for having a different cultural background etc...

[quote Level32]@linning

I don't want to diminish your argument because I think you make a good point, but race and skin colour are not the same. Race is a historical concept and in Charles Darwins's time (so only 150 years ago) there were considered 20+ races, not skin colours, races. Gypsy and roma were considered races. So it is still racism.

Xenophobia is more to do with "foreigners" so for white British people it would apply to discrimination or caricature/stereotyping of Europeans. The "east Europeans stealing our jobs!!!!" Would be xenophobia. [/quote]
I do appreciate you pointing that out though.

@Linning
Sorry, I don't agree they benefit from it.

[quote RootyT00t]@Linning
Sorry, I don't agree they benefit from it.[/quote]
You don’t agree you benefit from white at all irrelevant of personal circumstances? Do you genuinely think if you woke up black tomorrow in the exact set of circumstances your life would be totally unchanged?you don’t think it would make it even the teensiest bit harder and that your interactions with people and theirs with you would be always and absolutely the same?

From being white*

That isn't what I said though, is it.

@RootyT00t

That isn't what I said though, is it.

You said you don’t believe they benefit from I assume white privileges? So yes, if your life would change because you are suddenly black tomorrow despite keeping the same set of circumstances otherwise, then white people do benefit from white privileges. How far and how much depends on all the other stuff stacked for or against them. Otherwise your life wouldn’t change at all (and definitely not negatively) if you were black as being white according to you brings no benefits to the person who is white.

The people you say don't benefit from white privilege, as they're discriminated against therefore being subjected to racism instead - (eg travellers, Eastern Europeans etc) they'd have to open their mouths before they got to the point of being discriminated against, wouldn't they?
Otherwise how would people know?
Whereas if you were black you don't have to say or do anything for people to be racist towards you.
So white privilege definitely is real, regardless of whether you like the term/the wording or not.