AIBU to think these lgbt history resources should not be in school

[2fallsagain]

Resources produced by The Proud Trust and Stonewall for LGBT history month do the following, according to ssauk:

•	Teach children that they can be born into the wrong body or have a boy ‘inside’ and girl body outside (or vice versa).
•	Teach children that their parents and other trusted adults can be wrong about something as fundamental as the sex of a child – whether they are a boy or a girl.
•	Teach a belief held by a minority of people as if it were a fact.
•	Teach an incorrect and harmful definition of sexual orientation, which is likely to harm lesbian and gay (or those who would grow up to be) children the most.
•	Groom children into campaigning for things which are contrary to their rights under the Equality Act 2010 and to their safety. This will especially impact girls.
•	Misrepresent the struggle that LGB people have experienced to gain equal marriage.

Surely schools should only use materials which are compliant with the latest DfE RSE guidance and safeguarding protocols. These resources are terrible.

More info and links to resoursss here: https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/02/23/lgbt-history-month-school-packs

@Erkrie oh honestly. Like smashing my head against a wall. I never said it was easy, nor did I say "any hole" like you said above (which is vile). I witnessed first hand what my friend went through. I've said numerous times how difficult it was her. I could've said her nose looks better than mine and that's fine but as soon as I said her vagina looks better I'm a misogynist. I'm out though, I want today to be a good day, not sad thinking about all the prejudice in the world.

but as soon as I said her vagina looks better I'm a misogynist

Not. A. Vagina. Really quite simple. And I figured you had already smashed your head on a wall and had got concussion if you think it's possible to change sex and make a vagina out of a penis. It isn't. And as a lot of people read Mumsnet it's not a good ideas to push such damaging and untrue information.

@BarbaraofKent if you think that you really have no idea about what trans women (and men, although none of you seem at all fussed by them) go through. Have a good day!

I'm out though, I want today to be a good day, not sad thinking about all the prejudice in the world.

Whilst your sad about that, take a moment to feel sad for the young people who's bodies have been irreparably damaged, their increased risks of heart attacks and brittle bone, their sterilisation, decisions of a life time made by children. Would you want that for your kiddies? I certainly wouldn't. Luckily some of us take safeguarding seriously.

I'd look at the original material, a website picking and choosing sections for their own agenda isn't helpful either.

Sometimes as subtle as the wording makes all the difference, but I would say that primary school children don't really have the ability to understand trans or even sexuality in any way over and above 'same sex people can love each other' or 'some people are born female but later ask for help to become male'

It's right that teenagers are taught about trans issues, and also intersex that not everyone has male/female reproductive organs, some have both although this is rare and in this situation adults can get the assignation wrong.

Damaging and untrue information? Oh my days. None of your comments are damaging to trans people? Or do you not give a shit as long as they don't piss in a cubicle next to you?

[quote Jumpers268]@BarbaraofKent if you think that you really have no idea about what trans women (and men, although none of you seem at all fussed by them) go through. Have a good day![/quote]
If I really think what? That humans can't change sex?

Damaging and untrue information? Oh my days. None of your comments are damaging to trans people? Or do you not give a shit as long as they don't piss in a cubicle next to you?

Making the statement that transwomen can have a vagina is untrue. And your comments are damaging to young people who think it might be true, until they realise, too late, that they've been sold a lie.

Oh and then criticize my parenting haha. The suicide rates of trans people is so high it's honestly mind boggling. So yes I'd rather my son spoke to me about how he was feeling without judgment, than commit suicide.

@Gerberageri well put. My son is 5 and that's exactly how I explained it to him .

It's right that teenagers are taught about trans issues

And they are. Being born in the wrong body however is a dangerous lie and they can no longer be taught this.

Intersex that not everyone has male/female reproductive organs, some have both although this is rare and in this situation adults can get the assignation wrong.

Intersex conditions have absolutely nothing to do with trans ideology. It's just used as a useful vehicle to push the narrative of a girls brain in a boys body and vice versa. Which just isn't true. And kids are taught about intersex conditions. In biology. People with dsds have asked time and time again not to drag their condition into this debate. Yet people still persist.

Oh and then criticize my parenting haha. The suicide rates of trans people is so high it's honestly mind boggling. So yes I'd rather my son spoke to me about how he was feeling without judgment, than commit suicide.

What's mind boggling is that you actually believe the bogus suicide rates. But now I'm starting to see what your basing your ideas on. The alleged suicide rates have done a great job of getting people like you on board with the ideology. That was the intention you realise. Even though it's not actually true.

The suicide rates of trans people is so high it's honestly mind boggling.

Do you have actual statistics for this? Because the Mermaids figures are bogus - taken from an extremely small cohort study.

Here's what youre basing your facts on jumpers. A tiny study based on a self selecting audience. fairplayforwomen.com/suicide/

The point about parents being concerned is absolutely correct bin my view. Concern is for "our" children and what they are being told. As a parent we have a duty to protect our children. Children go through all sorts of stages quite quickly, they are growing up, teenagers even more so. The problem with the way information is presented is that it is presented as fact. The actions that can result from following this can be permanent, once a child/teenager goes down a route it is hard to reverse that decision. For example take vegetarians a teenage vegetarian convert finds it hard to move back to meat eating as it is means they were wrong and of course they will have argued their point, but changing what they eat is easily - no lasting impact. This is simply not the same with all decisions.

@Jumpers268

Oh and then criticize my parenting haha. The suicide rates of trans people is so high it's honestly mind boggling. So yes I'd rather my son spoke to me about how he was feeling without judgment, than commit suicide.

@Gerberageri well put. My son is 5 and that's exactly how I explained it to him .

Firstly, the statistics don't reflect this claim.

Secondly, I do hope that you are not ever going to expose your son to these claims that suicide is disproportionately high amongst trans kids/adults. Because for a child to be brought up thinking that being suicidal is somehow part of being transgender is, which could plant a seed that to be 'truly trans' you have to have had suicidal feelings, is incredibly dangerous.

It's why charities such as the Samaritans give advice around careful reporting of suicide and not linking suicide to a specific issue: it can cause people to think that they should be feeling suicidal too, if they are in a similar demographic.

I'm horrified at the way that trans activists throw around suicide claims, especially with regards to children, willy nilly (whilst also claiming that being trans is not a mental health issue and shouting 'bigot' at anyone who suggests otherwise).

Sorry, I should have been more clear. No one knows the suicide rates of transgender people as it's not recorded. However, they do know that transgender are far more likely to attempt suicide. And it wasn't that survey I was referring to. It was the NTDS report I was referring to.

Hoping this link works .

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/resources/NTDS_Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwig84yw4YTvAhXNVBUIHdG-B1kQFjABegQICBAD&usg=AOvVaw1XwD-lJ-Vfu9fO6xNToWht" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/resources/NTDS_Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwig84yw4YTvAhXNVBUIHdG-B1kQFjABegQICBAD&usg=AOvVaw1XwD-lJ-Vfu9fO6xNToWht

@2fallsagain

There is avast difference between teaching kids to accept people and peddling the untruth that some people are born in the wrong body. Nobody is born in the wrong body. Children struggling with their bodies for whatever reason should not be told that there bodies don't match their "gender identity" whatever that actually means (surely it just means they are not stereotypically male or female.

All schools should be challenging stereotypes and challenging sexism. All schools should have robust anti bullying policies. All schools should be adhering to government guidelines and safeguarding protocols. And upholding the law. That's really all there us to

I so agree with this.

If we didn't have gender stereotypes, hardly anyone would feel that they're in the wrong body imo.

My 4-year old self wanted to be a boy. I chose what were then consdiered "boys' toys" and wanted to wear trousers all the time (this was the 1950s). By the time I was 7, I no longer wanted to be a boy, and (according to my mother) had decided that I didn't want to be one because "boys are stupid". And a friend had a son who, in his pre-school years, wanted to wear pink dresses and play with his toy ironing board and vacuum cleaner, although afaik he never announced that he wanted to be a girl.

These days, some twat would probably be telling us that we're in the wrong body and we could sort it all out with hormones and surgery when we were older.

My daughters friendship group are all queer in one way or another, I can't even keep track of all the labels and orientations they give themselves. I think there is a lot of pressure to be something or you are seen to be judgemental or bigoted. I think it is very much a band wagon for some but I actually think that it muddies the water and detracts from actual Trans issues, people who are genuinely struggling and confused about their gender.

My OH is a trans man, he has known since he was 4 that he was a boy. I don't know how he has known, I have never questioned being a girl so it's not something I have experience of.
Now that he has been on hormones for a number of years he looks very much like a man, if he were to use the toilets assigned to him by sex then he gets abuse and outrage. So he uses the toilets of his presenting gender.

Most trans people don't want to stand out, they just want to live their life and pass as their preferred gender without drama and fear of abuse.

Personally I don't support trans people being able to play sports of the gender they prefer, so it's never a simple argument, you can agree with some points and disagree with others.

@BarbaraofKent no of course I won't teach him that you have to be suicidal to be trans. I think a lot of the comments on here have been filled with hatred and actually contempt for trans people. Like they're something to be fearful of. I have never been a trans "activist" but having seen it first hand the effects some of the comments can have on a trans person (especially trans women), I felt I had to comment. I don't appreciate being criticized for my parenting of my son. He's 5! I've just taught him to be compassionate and empathetic.

It's self selecting study group again jumpers. Just like the one in the UK. Please don't peddle this as suicides stats. They're not. They are not accurate, but they are effective in getting parents to support their kids to transition because better a trans child than a dead child right? Please read a little more critically.
And why do you think the suicide stats are not recorded Jumpers? With such a high number of suicides as you claim? Why not? There is a reason. Think....

Surely "teaching kids" about trans needs be no more than some people feel they identify more strongly with the opposite sex and it's absolutely ok to express yourself this way and reject gender norms? Together with a concrete zero tolerance anti bullying there is surely no need for anything deeper than this? DD 12 knows about consent and boundaries. She knows it's up to her who she loves and she knows that we all are free to express ourselves provided our needs don't impact on the safety and dignity of others. If they do, there's a conversation to be had.

Kids can be fickle and flit from one thought/opinion to another. Kids who really seem affected by their belief they're "born in the wrong body" however, a watchful waiting approach with people to talk to is the way to go. Then, once they're adults and understand fully the consequences long term of medically transition they can make that decision. It's actually pretty cruel to let a kid believe and actively encourage the belief they are in the wrong body.

In terms of sexuality I've not got a problem with young kids talking about this and exploring that you love who you love. The key for me however here is safeguarding - it's paramount that they are protected and understand consent and how they are protected by law. In the last few years there have been some very alarming incidences of totally inappropriate over reach when lobby groups have been involved in producing educational materials. Lessons teaching kids how to masturbate and if I recall, (I'm sure there are some posters who may have links) Asda had to do a quick recall last year on info it produced for education use which had a tag line around no minimum age limits for love. Christ, red flag anyone?

Chrissy your point on acceptance vs promotion.is key. Kids should know that as much as possible, regardless of who you love sexual acts need serious consideration before they happen. Our kids are being bombarded with highly sexualised imagery, concepts and conversation very young. This is a lot to take on. The focus if anything should be loving and respectful relationships.

Oh and a trans woman does not have a functioning vagina.

I'm so so glad these conversations are happening outside of FWR. There are some very harmful aspects of trans ideology and the debate needs sunshine. And of course, MN is one of the few places we can discuss this without death and rake threats so that's a definite plus.

I've just taught him to be compassionate and empathetic.

As I have with my children. I have taught them this without teaching them that humans can change sex, that a woman is a man without a penis,
or that there are 'boy and girl gender identities'. Because I am unable to teach my kids about gender identities without resorting to stereotypes about boys and girls.

that a woman is a man without a penis,

This should say 'that a woman is not a man without a penis'.