AIBU to think these lgbt history resources should not be in school

[2fallsagain]

Resources produced by The Proud Trust and Stonewall for LGBT history month do the following, according to ssauk:

•	Teach children that they can be born into the wrong body or have a boy ‘inside’ and girl body outside (or vice versa).
•	Teach children that their parents and other trusted adults can be wrong about something as fundamental as the sex of a child – whether they are a boy or a girl.
•	Teach a belief held by a minority of people as if it were a fact.
•	Teach an incorrect and harmful definition of sexual orientation, which is likely to harm lesbian and gay (or those who would grow up to be) children the most.
•	Groom children into campaigning for things which are contrary to their rights under the Equality Act 2010 and to their safety. This will especially impact girls.
•	Misrepresent the struggle that LGB people have experienced to gain equal marriage.

Surely schools should only use materials which are compliant with the latest DfE RSE guidance and safeguarding protocols. These resources are terrible.

More info and links to resoursss here: https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/02/23/lgbt-history-month-school-packs

@BarbaraofKent

that a woman is a man without a penis,

This should say 'that a woman is not a man without a penis'.

The fact the W word requires any qualifying is just

How do you answer a child when they ask you anybofvthr following if we are going to teach them about gender identity

1. what is a boy/ what is a girl?
2. How do you know you are a girl if you born a boy?
3. how can i be a girl if i have a penis?

Children will ask these sorts of questions so the adults teaching them need to be able to answer.

I’m very uncomfortable with the idea of a ‘girl’s brain’ or a ‘woman’s brain’.

Women have been oppressed for centuries by the notion that they have ‘female brains’.

Trans people exist and children should be taught about sex and relationships throughout school (age appropriate etc) so they understand what they are feeling and understand what is healthy and to respect other people.

Every one claiming you can't change sex, maybe not, but you can change gender and there is more than two genders. Gender is the social and cultural way you present, sex is the biological side of things. But even then there is a whole host of different ways your sex can present, eg. Chromosome differences, intersex.

People on MN always seem to claim that they don't care how people present their gender and having a non typical presentation of gender doesn't mean you have to change your identity from female to male or vice versa. Yet the vitriol shown against men who wear womens clothing or makeup (not trans women, but cis men who just want to wear something different) is ridiculous - they get called perverts and sickos. I've seen posters worry about women who are dressing androgynous or masculine, call out women with masculine features (facial hair, broad shoulders, big feet, tall) So clearly you're not OK with people expressing their gender differently!

I just find it mad that people are trying to act as if multiple genders don't exist, and that you can't change your gender when it's very well documented that many cultures do not have a gender binary and there have been many studies and scientific papers on gender as a social construct. The government, doctors, and charities all accept this as a real thing because it is! Transgender people have been around for a very long time, and it's incredibly disheartening to see fellow LGB people shit on trans people when they were at the forefront of the civil rights movement.

All this talk just hearkens back to the gay panic and think of the children bullshit from history. Children don't magically believe they are trans because someone told them trans people exist. And looking at wait lists for treatment for teens experiencing gender dysphoria, to act as if they're getting force fed meds and encouraged surgery is also inaccurate. I trust doctors and health care professionals and value their opinions a lot more than random strangers on the Internet.

And as other posters raised the whole bathroom stuff is dumb as hell, do you really think a cis man is going to give a shit about a bathroom sign if he wants to assault a woman? Or do you just think anyone with a penis is a raving predator who could rape you at any second? Other posters have shown the photos of a trans man in a women's bathroom and a trans women in a man's bathroom - do you seriously believe any woman would be happy with a trans man coming it to pee? He would be kicked out immediately. And a trans woman in a men's bathroom would be kicked out or at worse assaulted. There's been many women, including butch lesbians, who have shared their experiences of being kicked out of women's bathrooms because they look masculine and someone's gotten panicked and wanted to remove them. All this fuss over trans people has just made people more critical of how you present your gender and it is a ridiculous backward step.

I'm very glad to see this thread has had other posters come out in support of trans people and trans right, it sometimes feels overwhelming and I'm sure I've not changed anyone's mind with my points but I just wanted to show my support and share my opinion. Adios!

Surely "teaching kids" about trans needs be no more than some people feel they identify more strongly with the opposite sex and it's absolutely ok to express yourself this way and reject gender norms?

Yes, it's the gender "norms" that are the problem. Without those, we wouldn't have these issues, at least not to anything like the same extent. And those "norms" are simple social constructs.

The thread is about what is taught in schools，I do not believe it is possible due to the lobbying of these groups to tackle the issues at secondary or sixth form. The allocations of discrimination make it impossible to have an open debate , any teacher who slows questioning of the opposing view will be accused, whilst teenagers are scared who have traditional views are accused of discrimination. The sad thing is that the discrimination allegations are stifling free speech. fortunately in our own homes we can express our valid views freely !

Multiple genders exist. Some people would say there are so many that it's called personality . Yes everybody should be allowed to be themselves

Got nowt to do with sex though, should not be conflated with sex , a

Or do you just think anyone with a penis is a raving predator who could rape you at any second?

The thing is, lots of women do feel they have to think like that. There’s absolutely no way of telling which men are the nice men and which ones are the one who will rape and strangle you for no other reason than the fact you’re female. They don’t wear t-shirts, unfortunately.

I find all the discussion on the importance of gender so depressing.

Strides were made in this area. Women were pushing out old ideas about what they could do with their 'female brains'. We made progress. I was brought up in the 70s/80s, wearing my brother's (mostly brown and orange - thank you 70s fashion) hand me downs. We played with the same toys. That was easier when there were no pink and blue aisles in toy shops.

That is so much harder now. We have gone backwards.

And all I want is for us to be able to question things such as 'why are so many girls - way, way more teenage girls than boys - coming out as trans now? Could this be because society has made being female so much worse now? What can we do to fix that wider problem and make it ok to be a woman?

But this question isn't affirming or accepting individual girls' gender identity issues, so it is deemed a damaging conversation.

I want to ask 'are puberty blockers really the best treatment for children
and young people?'

And 'what's with all the depression and suicide ideation? Could it be that the depression came first and the 'solution' of transition came later?'

But this seems impossible. Asking the questions is bigotry.

And I don't know how to explain this to my children, who have been taught to accept all people as individuals and to reject gender restrictions. They will be taught to be tolerant and compassionate and accepting, but I would not tell them that changing sex is possible, or that anyone is in the wrong body, because I don't believe that to be the case.

So where do we go from here?

i just want to challenge this belief that a surgically created vagina isn't a vagina, its just a 'hole that looks nice' (ew)

There are biological women out there who's genitalia didn't form properly, who have had to have surgery to create a vagina.. is theirs not a vagina either then? Some may have the inner reproductive organs, some don't, and will never have periods or children, vagina or not.

Or do you have you have the female chromosome present in your cells for that surgically created 'hole' to count as a vagina?

Because if their surgically created vagina is allowed to be called a vagina, then so is the vagina created for someone during GRS.

@Brinstar

Why does there have to be three new threads about this a day?

Because it's still happening, and it's still harming children - and this is a parenting website.

This sexist, homophobic nonsense crept into institutions because there wasn't sunlight on it - the drivers of it have admitted they deliberately kept things very quiet while they pursued institutional capture. I think at this stage, the more sunlight, the better.

Now that he has been on hormones for a number of years he looks very much like a man, if he were to use the toilets assigned to him by sex then he gets abuse and outrage. So he uses the toilets of his presenting gender.

The difference between transmen and transwomen in this sort of situation is that women have little to fear from transmen (biological women). Whereas women have a lot to fear from biological men as a class. And rates of transwomen criminal offending are the same as male criminal offending.

I am NOT saying that transwomen are criminal; I am talking about sex categories and sex classes

A man who loses his penis in an accident or war is still a man

There are biological women out there who's genitalia didn't form properly, who have had to have surgery to create a vagina.. is theirs not a vagina either then?

Have they had a vagina transplant? or does it have another name such as 'Neo-vagina'? If it is a recreation of the body part, it is functions in a similar fashion but is still a recreation of that body part. For instance, a medical professional would need to know before accurately making a diagnosis on that that body part.

Will all schools be using this?

it's incredibly disheartening to see fellow LGB people shit on trans people when they were at the forefront of the civil rights movement

TallFriendlyGinger except they weren't, were they? I am sick of gay history being rewritten to push foward such an anti-gay position. Knock it off.

@MrsHusky

i just want to challenge this belief that a surgically created vagina isn't a vagina, its just a 'hole that looks nice' (ew)

There are biological women out there who's genitalia didn't form properly, who have had to have surgery to create a vagina.. is theirs not a vagina either then? Some may have the inner reproductive organs, some don't, and will never have periods or children, vagina or not.

Or do you have you have the female chromosome present in your cells for that surgically created 'hole' to count as a vagina?

Because if their surgically created vagina is allowed to be called a vagina, then so is the vagina created for someone during GRS.

Please do not equate biological women, who were born with specific medical conditions, with men. It's really offensive.

I think it is very difficult to teach these things when there is not even consensus in the adult sphere, when public bodies often misinterpret the EA, where stating biological fact as taught in a biology lesson in England could be considered hate speech in Scotland.

It’s a particular worry if materials exist which directly defy the D of E or are stating mistruths such as puberty blockers being completely reversible. Reinforcing stereotypes with the genderbread/barbie-GI joe spectrum stuff. Policies where schools have not communicated with parents when their children are experiencing confusion about their gender.

It is also a worry that in order to be inclusive and accepting of different ways of having a sexual relationships, that without careful handling, the risk is the erosion of young people’s boundaries to say no to certain things, particularly in these pornified times. (Thinking about the infamous dice game or the teen vogue article which included anal sex but missed off the clitoris).

I don’t know what the answer is, where the balance lies with teaching respect and understanding of others, healthy relationships and consent, helping children who are experiencing dysphoria and upholding everyone’s rights. I don’t envy teachers and can see why this stuff is so readily outsourced. Perhaps there needs to be a standardised curriculum for this.

Why was my earlier post deleted?

"Yet the vitriol shown against men who wear womens clothing or makeup (not trans women, but cis men who just want to wear something different) is ridiculous - they get called perverts and sickos."
Reciepts please.
This is blatant lies.
There was a thread on here about Harry styles in a dress and I dont recall anyone calling him a pervert.
Men can wear what they want.
Wearing women's clothes doesn't make them women.
Nobody is born in the wrong body.
The whole ideology is a nonsense and I dont want my child being taught nonsense.

@BarbaraofKent i find your blatant Transphobia offensive, so how about you keep your opinions to yourself?

Just to clarify all, are we ok to say cis? I didn't think so.

I agree. It's frightening. And you don't have to be a conservative religious person to be concerned at what is being promoted in schools. I have family & friends who are liberal are they are concerned too. The world has gone mad.