AIBU to think these lgbt history resources should not be in school

[2fallsagain]

Resources produced by The Proud Trust and Stonewall for LGBT history month do the following, according to ssauk:

•	Teach children that they can be born into the wrong body or have a boy ‘inside’ and girl body outside (or vice versa).
•	Teach children that their parents and other trusted adults can be wrong about something as fundamental as the sex of a child – whether they are a boy or a girl.
•	Teach a belief held by a minority of people as if it were a fact.
•	Teach an incorrect and harmful definition of sexual orientation, which is likely to harm lesbian and gay (or those who would grow up to be) children the most.
•	Groom children into campaigning for things which are contrary to their rights under the Equality Act 2010 and to their safety. This will especially impact girls.
•	Misrepresent the struggle that LGB people have experienced to gain equal marriage.

Surely schools should only use materials which are compliant with the latest DfE RSE guidance and safeguarding protocols. These resources are terrible.

More info and links to resoursss here: https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/02/23/lgbt-history-month-school-packs

@cinammonbuns

And I’m sure someone will come and try to convince me I’m wrong but this sounds suspiciously like when decades ago we were not allowed to teach that gay people exist as people claimed it would influence their child to be gay......

Yep, very similar to the people who were pro section 28.

The transphobes are rabidly obsessed with people who are trans, just as homophobes tend to be weirdly obsessed with gay people.

So kids, trans people exist and are to be accepted and respected. HOWEVER, they are also wrong and liars because nobody is born in the wrong body.

According to trans charity Mermaids, no one is born in the wrong body.

"So kids, trans people exist and are to be accepted and respected. HOWEVER, they are also wrong and liars because nobody is born in the wrong body."

Before I can answer that, I'd need to know what your model of 'trans' is.
Is it a medical condition, needing medical intervention to put right? In which case we can teach children as and when it crops up, as we do with other medical conditions.
Is it an intangible thing with no evidence, like a religion? In which case we teach it in a 'some people believe' way like RE.

Section 28 is a really lame comparison, by the way.

Any response to their comment on asexuals. Is it terrifyingly gross for children to know some people do not experience sexual attraction?

Teaching a child that if they don't conform to stereotypes about their biological sex there might be something wrong with them, that there might have been a glitch somewhere along the way, and that it might need correcting is absolutely abhorrent.

As a bisexual woman who lived through section 28 the comparison is beyond offensive, so we’ll done on that.

My work had the Proud trust materials on our intranet and I got them removed because they’re offensive and political.

It's terrifyingly gross to be teaching primary school children about sexual attraction full stop. They should be learning about their own bodies, not other people's.

@slashlover

There is avast difference between teaching kids to accept people and peddling the untruth that some people are born in the wrong body. Nobody is born in the wrong body.

So kids, trans people exist and are to be accepted and respected. HOWEVER, they are also wrong and liars because nobody is born in the wrong body.

Care to comment on the erasure of Ase people?

Nobody should be discriminated against because of their sex, sexuality, how they dress, what the believe. But I don't believe people can change sex so no, we shouldn't have to be forced into an ideology we don't believe in. And children shouldn't be taught something that is not true. It's not good for kids to be taught if they don't confirm to stereotypes there might be something wrong with them. It's extremely sexist. So when I say acceptance that doesn't mean I have to accept people with dysphoria were actually born in the wrong body.

I need to read the bits on a sexuality. I don't believe primary children need to know about asexuality as they won't have experienced sexual feelings snd i think it's confusing. I think older teenagers do need to know that some people are asexual and to know that's ok if they think they are asexual.

Heartened to see the pushback against the usual MN views on trans rights. Ye are talking to a brick wall but it's good to see others of a similar view.

I'm not sure what the issues with asexuals is meant to be but for the ace posters upset by this.

@SimonJT of course I am a terrible misogynist who hates woman for saying this (even though I am a women and regularly campaign for women’s causes) but I would love for somebody to tell me why there is anything wrong with teaching children that people who differ from the norm exist.

If your child is a boy and is happy being a boy or vice versa why would this change their mind? It is education. At school I learned about Hinduism and I’m not a Hindu.

And it is absolutely impossible to teach children about 'gender identity' without resorting to regressive stereotypes about males and females. Otherwise what is the 'identity' you are referring to?

If one of the 'you are disgusting transphobes' brigade wants to enlighten me on this one then I'm all ears.

I need to read the bits on a sexuality. I don't believe primary children need to know about asexuality as they won't have experienced sexual feelings snd i think it's confusing.

So in that case how do you propose heterosexuality is hidden from children?

If your child is a boy and is happy being a boy or vice versa why would this change their mind?

What if you are a boy who likes pink and glitter and at school you are taught about 'girl and boy gender identities' and you start to think that because you like pink and dresses that means that you have a 'girl gender identity' and that makes you wonder if that means you have been born in the wrong body?

@SionnachRua oh I know I am talking to a brick wall and I’ll be off before someone accuses me of hating women for having a different opinion but I see it say in and day out on here and it’s exhausting.

That link is truly scary. It’s like anything not heterosexual and the norm should be hidden from children. It’s like we are in the 50’s.

Thank you for your kind words about asexuals. When I was younger I believed there was something seriously wrong with me and even doctors tried to tell me I must have a medical program.

[quote cinammonbuns]@SimonJT of course I am a terrible misogynist who hates woman for saying this (even though I am a women and regularly campaign for women’s causes) but I would love for somebody to tell me why there is anything wrong with teaching children that people who differ from the norm exist.

If your child is a boy and is happy being a boy or vice versa why would this change their mind? It is education. At school I learned about Hinduism and I’m not a Hindu.[/quote]
Because if you telll a girl who is not "girly" that girls who are not "girly" might be trans or born in the wrong body you are telling her there is something wrong with being a non girly girl. That perhaps she should be a boy. A boy who doesn't feel like a boy is a boy who doesn't adhere to sexist stereotypes. He is not a girl. And to start putting these thoughts in kids heads is damaging. And contravenes government guidance.

Honestly how people cannot see how regressive and sexist this whole thing is is beyond me.

@BarbaraofKent well I agree actually teaching should not say that liking certain things makes you a boy or a girl. However? I think to deny that the experience of being a women or a men is still highly socialised and full of stereotypes so I would like to know how you would teach children about trans people?

So in that case how do you propose heterosexuality is hidden from children?

Children don't understand heterosexuality in terms of sexual attraction, they understand it in terms of relationships, same as homosexuality. Primary kids don't really need to know that some people have no sexual feelings towards other people. Yes, they will know that some people don't have relationships, never get married etc but there could be lots of reasons for that apart from asexuality anyway?

@2fallsagain keyword is May. If the teaching was that it means you Are a boy if you like girly things and vice versa I would be very concerned.

@BarbaraofKent well yes probably they don’t need to know it. Just like I didn’t need to know the diameter of the sun as I don’t believe I have used this knowledge since discovering it. However the link implies knowing this is somehow harmful to children. Why would that be?

My son is 5 and one of my best friends is trans and he understands "she used to be a boy, but now she's a girl". It has nothing to do with her sexuality. The ignorance is truly mind boggling.

keyword is May. If the teaching was that it means you Are a boy if you like girly things and vice versa I would be very concerned.

Yes, because teaching children that if they like things associated with the opposite sex then that MAY mean they have been born in the wrong body, at a time when they are about to embark on a massively difficult and confusing time with regards to their bodies during puberty, won't cause any problems at all will it?

Children are never born in the wrong body. There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body. If you don't conform to society's bullshit stereotypes about boys and girls it does not mean there is something wrong with you, that you might need to start taking off label drugs before you have even started puberty, have healthy body parts cut off, become irreversibly infertile and sexually dysfunctional, change your body completely so that you can be 'your true self'.

It's a horrible thing to teach children.

[quote cinammonbuns]@2fallsagain keyword is May. If the teaching was that it means you Are a boy if you like girly things and vice versa I would be very concerned.[/quote]
Have you actually read any of the resources that are being critiqued. They are full of sexist bullshit, the whole concept of gender identity being different from your sex relies on stereotypes. Otherwise how would anyone be "trans".

I agree op these should not be allowed in schools unless of course the absolute opposite to the information was taught - which of course it can't be as the information is being presented as fact. This is another example of promotion of one set of views.

[quote cinammonbuns]@BarbaraofKent well yes probably they don’t need to know it. Just like I didn’t need to know the diameter of the sun as I don’t believe I have used this knowledge since discovering it. However the link implies knowing this is somehow harmful to children. Why would that be?[/quote]
Because it is sexualising children and exposing them to concepts they are not equipped to understand. As I said, children do not understand homosexuality and heterosexuality in terms of sexual attraction but in terms of relationships they see (eg. A same sex couple getting married or mums and dad's etc). Asexuality revolves around sexuality, ie the lack of - in order to discuss it, you have to talk about sexual attraction.

It's not something they need to know about in primary school 🤷‍♀️ Obviously older it's fine, but again I don't know if would warrant more than a 'and some people aren't attracted to anyone' mention tbh?

Do the people proposing that 5 year olds need to be taught about asexuality (and indeed any/all sexualities) have kids themselves? Because it sure sounds like you don’t know the target audience very well.

The government guidance to schools was recently updated such that children should not be taught that you can be born in the wrong body. Because you can’t. You are born. End of. You might not like how you are are but you were not actually born into the wrong body. The fact that some people find relief in changing aspects of their body when they are older, still does not lend credence to the concept of a ”wrong body”. It’s complete nonsense and even Mermaids now abides by the government guidance.