AIBU to think these lgbt history resources should not be in school

[2fallsagain]

Resources produced by The Proud Trust and Stonewall for LGBT history month do the following, according to ssauk:

•	Teach children that they can be born into the wrong body or have a boy ‘inside’ and girl body outside (or vice versa).
•	Teach children that their parents and other trusted adults can be wrong about something as fundamental as the sex of a child – whether they are a boy or a girl.
•	Teach a belief held by a minority of people as if it were a fact.
•	Teach an incorrect and harmful definition of sexual orientation, which is likely to harm lesbian and gay (or those who would grow up to be) children the most.
•	Groom children into campaigning for things which are contrary to their rights under the Equality Act 2010 and to their safety. This will especially impact girls.
•	Misrepresent the struggle that LGB people have experienced to gain equal marriage.

Surely schools should only use materials which are compliant with the latest DfE RSE guidance and safeguarding protocols. These resources are terrible.

More info and links to resoursss here: https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/02/23/lgbt-history-month-school-packs

'Just to clarify all, are we ok to say cis? I didn't think so.'
No.
Its a banned word as far as I know.
Its also blatant nonsense.
Lots of women find it very offensive.

Gender is the social and cultural way you present, sex is the biological side of things

Yes, gender is society's expectations of how men and women should dress, behave, what they should like etc. Those expectations are bullshit and have nothing to do with male and female, so there should be no conflating of sex and gender, and it certainly shouldn't be the case that males with a 'female gender identity' are gaining access to women's spaces and provisions.

But even then there is a whole host of different ways your sex can present, eg. Chromosome differences, intersex.

Intersex conditions are disorders of sexual development and have absolutely nothing to so with transgenderism. People with these conditions have been appropriated to prop up an argument that biological sex is 'a spectrum' and that there isnt really such a thing as male and female, an argument used mainly by males who appear to not want females to been seen as a distinct class, have their own separate rights and single sex provision.

Transgender people have been around for a very long time, and it's incredibly disheartening to see fellow LGB people shit on trans people when they were at the forefront of the civil rights movement.

There are plenty of gay and lesbian people who were at the forefront of the gay rights movement who say that this is not true.

All this talk just hearkens back to the gay panic and think of the children bullshit from history. Children don't magically believe they are trans because someone told them trans people exist.

If you are gay, you are gay, if you are straight you are straight. You like what you like. If you are straight, then learning about homosexuality and being brought up knowing that gay people exist isn't going to turn you gay, because you can't help what you like. However, if you have been brought up to think that some people are born in the wrong body and that if you are a boy who likes pink and glitter then there might be something 'wrong' with you, that needs 'correcting' then when, somewhere along the way, you find yourself into something that society says is part of the 'girl gender identity' then yes, you may well think you are trans, may well think you need 'correcting' in order to be your true self. The two are not comparable and I think one of the cleverest things that trans ideology ever did was to tack onto LGB because it means that people, as they have done on this thread, can use the 'this is just like the homophobia of yore' argument. The gay rights movement never said that children need to be put on lifelong medical pathways before they have even hit puberty, never said that single sex exemptions needed to be removed from the Equality Act, never said that believing in biological sex was bigotry.

I trust doctors and health care professionals and value their opinions a lot more than random strangers on the Internet.

Well the court cases for these medical professionals are starting to come in thick and fast now.

And as other posters raised the whole bathroom stuff is dumb as hell, do you really think a cis man is going to give a shit about a bathroom sign if he wants to assault a woman?

Ah yes, the old 'look ladies men are gonna rape you anyway so we might as well just make all spaces mixed sex and if you don't like it then tough shit' argument. Bingo!

Thanks Josie I thought so. I was curious as it's been used above and that's all dandy.

Yet my post was deleted earlier and I'm pretty sure I've not broken any guidelines.

You walk into a room full of people. 50% of them are carrying a hidden weapon. You are one of the people who is not. Fortunately, the vast majority of weapon carriers are constrained by their own temperament, society not to use their weapon. The others, the presence of other people has an inhibiting effect. I find it really helpful to know which 50% of people in the room are safe to be alone with, and which ones I'll exercise some caution about.
I will not support anything which stops me exercising caution, which stops me choosing who to be alone with. And I will never, never believe any man who tells me he's different, he's safe.

The penis can be a weapon. And depressingly frequently, it is.

@Erkrie

Are you doing that misogynistic thing where you value a vagina by how nice and tight it is and how nice it would feel for a man to put his penis into?

Seems to be yep. Any old hole will do, as long as it's tight enough.

You can't make a vagina. It's impossible at the moment. I've had a mastectomy and had a DIEP flap reconstruction. It feels like a breast but it isn't one. It has no breast tissue.

Every one claiming you can't change sex, maybe not, but you can change gender and there is more than two genders. Gender is the social and cultural way you present, sex is the biological side of things. But even then there is a whole host of different ways your sex can present, eg. Chromosome differences, intersex.

Please don't use people's medical conditions to destabilise what is known about the sex classes of humans. People who have medical conditions that are categorised as differences of sex development are still, from what I have read and the people I have listened to, either male or female. In fact, many conditions effect either male or female only.

I am glad that you recognise that no one can change sex. They can use surgery and chemicals to alter aspects of their body to reflect the sex they feel they are, and set themselves up to be on a course of medicine for life. If they stop taking the artifical hormones and still have organs in their body that can produce natural hormones, their body will go back to producing the hormones of their sex. It is encoded into their cells.

For 'gender' to then be recognised as being changeable, stereotypes then have to be strengthened because how else can someone 'change' their gender presentation if not for stereotypes.

Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with people with medical conditions that effect their sex development. It goes without saying that some people with DSDs will be trans, but trans people are not people with DSDs otherwise.

Please don't spread false information.

And looking at wait lists for treatment for teens experiencing gender dysphoria, to act as if they're getting force fed meds and encouraged surgery is also inaccurate.

And there are organisations that operate privately and outside of the UK at the moment that are not necessarily following very responsible practices. They have been documented in fact for providing puberty blockers on the basis of a short session that is labelled as counselling and in some instances is not even with a doctor I believe.

I trust doctors and health care professionals and value their opinions a lot more than random strangers on the Internet.

Excellent, then you will also trust those with decades of experience that are stating that there is problems with the current practices and that if they raise these issues they are silenced. There is also a safeguarding issue that is going through court later this year where clinicians were told not to talk to the safeguarding lead about their concerns.

So, just to clarify, you will also listen to these clinicians as well?

The gay rights movement never said that children need to be put on lifelong medical pathways before they have even hit puberty

In fact, the gay liberation movement opposed any attempts to 'convert' gay children to straightness via medication.

We can only have a notion of gender if we collectively subscribe to a notion of sexist stereotypes. For example, women, pink, housework, children, long hair. Etc. And for men, practical, masculine, strong, breadwinner, diy.

We've battled for years against these stereotypes and they're pretty damaging to both men and women. People are just made up of lots of different things that they like and enjoy doing.

So if men like wearing dresses and make up then who cares. They were doing this back in the 80s and it was accepted. If women want to look more masculine, well cool too. It's nothing new.

But now it seems that people can't experiment or be who they want to be without being put in the gender box. It's touted as some sort of freedom, but really it's the most confirmative and constricting thing I've ever seen.

And even if we were to agree there was a gender identity, which is separate to sex, then why does that mean that some one with a female gender identity use the resources that are there for sex. Particularly when it's widely recognised that sex segregated spaces are there to provide dignity and some level of safety to women.

Because it's already been said here, gender and sex are not the same thing. Nowhere near the same thing. And women still need the protections of sex segregated services.

Conflating sex and gender and saying they are the same is extremely dangerous and damaging. If adults cannot even provide clarity on what gender identity is and what it has to do with sex, then why on earth would we have this confused message being taught to our children?

Which is why the government have recognised this and put a stop to it. These political teaching resources are not allowed in schools. It's not denying trans people's identities, it's ensuring we are clear about the measurable facts we are teaching our children.

Jumpers268 - how on earth are you so familiar with the appearance of your friend’s ‘vagina’?! I have never seen any of my friends’ vaginas and can’t imagine any situation in which I would.

@Llyn haha it does make it sound like I'm up close with all my friends genitals don't it? I was there a lot for her post op and also through her entire transition. She's also not a shy person and very open with pretty much everything .

Sex vs gender

There are 2 sexes. Humans can’t change sex. Telling children that their healthy bodies are “wrong” is child abuse.

Primary kids shoud not be taught about sexuality at all. Let kids be kids! Sex ed should be taught in secondary school, but very carefully and with the consent of parents. Gender ideology should be taught in the same way as religions: "some people believe..."