AIBU to think these lgbt history resources should not be in school

[2fallsagain]

Resources produced by The Proud Trust and Stonewall for LGBT history month do the following, according to ssauk:

•	Teach children that they can be born into the wrong body or have a boy ‘inside’ and girl body outside (or vice versa).
•	Teach children that their parents and other trusted adults can be wrong about something as fundamental as the sex of a child – whether they are a boy or a girl.
•	Teach a belief held by a minority of people as if it were a fact.
•	Teach an incorrect and harmful definition of sexual orientation, which is likely to harm lesbian and gay (or those who would grow up to be) children the most.
•	Groom children into campaigning for things which are contrary to their rights under the Equality Act 2010 and to their safety. This will especially impact girls.
•	Misrepresent the struggle that LGB people have experienced to gain equal marriage.

Surely schools should only use materials which are compliant with the latest DfE RSE guidance and safeguarding protocols. These resources are terrible.

More info and links to resoursss here: https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/02/23/lgbt-history-month-school-packs

What did the school say when you asked them?

@BarbaraofKent as far as I am aware none of these things are allowed to be done to people until they are 16 or 18 (can’t remember) years older in the U.K.. When they get to that stage they can do anything they want as far as I’m concerned. Plastic surgery is legal so I don’t see why reassignment surgery is wrong when a person is of age and can take responsibility for their actions. While I wish that society gender stereotypes did not exist too we still live in a world where they do. And therefore people will still feel uncomfortable with their bodies.

I do hope all sexist stereotypes are abandoned in time.

@SimonJT

I need to read the bits on a sexuality. I don't believe primary children need to know about asexuality as they won't have experienced sexual feelings snd i think it's confusing.

So in that case how do you propose heterosexuality is hidden from children?

My 10 year old knows some women are married/live with/go out with men, some women are married to women, sone men are married to men. And some people are very happily single. She doesn't need to understand about sexual attraction. Why would she? She us 10.

@snow21 if you are referring to me I said secondary school children should learn about it :)

@snow21

Do the people proposing that 5 year olds need to be taught about asexuality (and indeed any/all sexualities) have kids themselves? Because it sure sounds like you don’t know the target audience very well.

The government guidance to schools was recently updated such that children should not be taught that you can be born in the wrong body. Because you can’t. You are born. End of. You might not like how you are are but you were not actually born into the wrong body. The fact that some people find relief in changing aspects of their body when they are older, still does not lend credence to the concept of a ”wrong body”. It’s complete nonsense and even Mermaids now abides by the government guidance.

If you don’t think children should be taught about any sexualities how did/do you hide heterosexuality from your children?

I have a five year old. How do you propose I hide my sexuality from him?

@BarbaraofKent not sure if you read my post but I did say that it would be secondary children I would recommend it for.

And I do believe asexuality would warrant more discussion than that but I will leave you to yourself as I’m sure I won’t change your mind and I don’t like to waste my time.

Its a load of utter bollocks. How about teaching subjects in school that are actually beneficial to the vast majority of people? Such as debt and financial budgeting for example.

@2fallsagain So you’re happy for her to know about heterosexual and homosexual sexual attraction, but not the fact that some are asexual, why?

I think the nuance here is acceptance vs promotion. Based on age of children etc., we should just have a way to make sure kids have access to information and resources which normalise whatever they may be feeling. We seem to be over compensating by tying to push ideas and concepts which are very adult onto very young people

@Jumpers268

My son is 5 and one of my best friends is trans and he understands "she used to be a boy, but now she's a girl". It has nothing to do with her sexuality. The ignorance is truly mind boggling.

I will not ever teach my children that human beings can change sex.

[quote cinammonbuns]@BarbaraofKent as far as I am aware none of these things are allowed to be done to people until they are 16 or 18 (can’t remember) years older in the U.K.. When they get to that stage they can do anything they want as far as I’m concerned. Plastic surgery is legal so I don’t see why reassignment surgery is wrong when a person is of age and can take responsibility for their actions. While I wish that society gender stereotypes did not exist too we still live in a world where they do. And therefore people will still feel uncomfortable with their bodies.

I do hope all sexist stereotypes are abandoned in time.[/quote]
Up until recently children as young as 9 who didn't fit stereotypes and were labelled trans as a result were given drugs to halt their puberty. So iveoukdxsayvteavhingvwtong body crap is very damaging indeed.

4500% increase in girls being referred to gender clinics for gender dysphoria. All of those non girly girls, many lesbians.any ASD being given life changing drugs. And some people on here still think that this stuff they teach has no consequence other than "acceptance". Children with gender dysphoria need support, understanding, time, space and counselling. Not validation, celebration and wrong body bullshit.

@BarbaraofKent as far as I am aware none of these things are allowed to be done to people until they are 16 or 18 (can’t remember) years older in the U.K..

Well there has just been a court case that has ruled that under 16s will have to go to court in order to be given puberty blockers (the off label drugs I was referring to) because it has been deemed that an under 16 is unlikely to be able to consent to this. Before this court case children under 16 could be given these drugs if prescribed by the NHS.

And I can tell you that people in certain circles are fucking up in arms about it, calling it bigotry, ignorance, an act of violence because these children will kill themselves if they cannot be given these untested drugs (even though being trans is not a mental health issue).

So you are not correct.

@BarbaraofKent but she has. She's post op too. No longer has a penis. Has a vagina now. My son knows that too. I'm glad I'm raising my child to be curious, to ask questions and most of all to be compassionate. You do you though.

[quote SimonJT]@2fallsagain So you’re happy for her to know about heterosexual and homosexual sexual attraction, but not the fact that some are asexual, why?[/quote]
She doesn't think of it as attraction as that is an alien concept to her. She sees it in terms of who you are in a relationship with. Why are you so keen for kids to need to learn about adults sex lives?

I would contact baroness Nicholson op. She has a letter addressing this exact issue, which you can forward to your MP and school.

Oh and puberty blockers can cause stunted growth, bone problems, can impact on brain development (kind of vital during puberty) and a host of other issues. Even some children who were prescribed them for precocious puberty have had issues, let alone children who are being prescribed them to stop a perfectly normally developing puberty.

So anyone promoting them or anyone who is upset at children being denied them, needs to be kept away from schools.

@BarbaraofKent well currently what I said is true. So how am I incorrect?

[quote Jumpers268]@BarbaraofKent but she has. She's post op too. No longer has a penis. Has a vagina now. My son knows that too. I'm glad I'm raising my child to be curious, to ask questions and most of all to be compassionate. You do you though.[/quote]
Good on her! 👍🏻💜

[quote Jumpers268]@BarbaraofKent but she has. She's post op too. No longer has a penis. Has a vagina now. My son knows that too. I'm glad I'm raising my child to be curious, to ask questions and most of all to be compassionate. You do you though.[/quote]
She doesn't have a vagina.

A vagina is not just a 'hole' that has been artificially created using the skin from a penis. And a woman is not 'a man without a penis'. And IMO is kind of misogynistic to teach your son this. But as you said, you do you.

@2fallsagain Ah there we have it, it didn’t take long for the gay = sexual predator comments to start.

[quote cinammonbuns]@BarbaraofKent well currently what I said is true. So how am I incorrect?[/quote]
Because this case as only won in December and it's going to appeal it's a highly contested area with many people advocating that children who don't fit stereotypes should be given drugs to stop puberty.

Have you actually read any of the resources that are being critiqued.

lgbtplushistorymonth.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/LGBT-History-Month-Pack-2021.pdf

The word trans is used 24 times

• One of the words to be included on a badge design for a competition
• As one of the words that a definition has to be matched to
• In teacher notes as a possible answer to a question/what restrictions might trans people have in sport/do they know any trans athletes?
• Imagine being a trans person, what barriers might they face? How could we help this?
• A bio which includes that the person is trans
• Mention that they have a flag
• In teacher notes as a possible answer to a question
• In the title for a symbol

There is no mention of being in the wrong body, liking pink things etc.

The definition for trans is "A person whose gender identity is in some way different to the gender they were assigned at birth" and is one of 12 different definitions.

@2fallsagain what is mutually exclusive between giving the children support and counselling as well as validation?

And I’m not sure how you know the sexual orientation of these girls.

I guess it is a prediction...

And yeah as I have said as far as I know no surgical or hormonal treatment is allowed until a child is 16 and has gone to court. At that point - the same as any other elective cosmetic surgery. They take the responsibility.

That is my opinion, you a free to have yours.

I think this kind of information is very damaging to people who don't understand the facts, particularly young people. Post op transwomen do not have vaginas. You cannot 'make' a vagina.

[quote cinammonbuns]@BarbaraofKent well currently what I said is true. So how am I incorrect?[/quote]
Well yes, technically you are now correct.

But this (under 16s not being able to access blockers without going to court) has only come about because of very brave women who have worked really hard to bring the issue to court. And I can tell you, they have been called all sorts, 'ignorant bigot' and similar accusations seen on this thread, being the absolute least worst!