Partner losing £££ in stocks

[iwanttotravel]

Good evening Mumsnet!

Hope someone can tell me if I am being unreasonable or not as I am unsure if I am over reacting. But I am feeling really hurt and embarrassed.

My DP of more then 10 years took an interest in cryptocurrency over the weekend. I don't know anything about it and find the whole thing confusing tbh. And although he hasn't traded in stocks before he does have investment qualifications. He told me he put ££ in some particular stock as a bit of fun, I smiled and nodded, his money his life, his fun and all that...

Yesterday I saw one of his tweets talking to someone about a different stock (not the one he had mentioned to me) and that he had bought and bought and bought again as it was low and a 'steal' apparently.

I asked him about it and he told me he had bought a bit more, (still only within ££) but I found out he had went over his monthly allowance on his credit card so would need to borrow money from savings to cover him to avoid interest charges.

This upset me as he effectively gambled our savings without asking me. He said he would cover the cost the following month and made me feel like it was his business not mine. We went to bed. I forgot about it.

Today. He messages me 'may have messed up a little bit'. That while he was purchasing, some of the payments were not processing and were in fact duplicating entries!!!! He had actually spent 10X the amount of what he originally said £££. This would all need to come from our savings and he will pay back in installments.

I told him I knew he was lying. He denied. Everything he was saying didn't add up. But he looked me dead in the eye and told me this was a bank error. He swore on our kids lives. And then long story short, he did lie and admitted to all the purchases. He lied.

I'm so sorry this went on for so long. I'm just in tears. He said he felt embarrassed about telling me. These stocks are tanking and he's losing money and I somehow feel sorry for him but he looked me dead in the eye and lied through his teeth.

I've been thinking about handing my engagement ring back. I just don't like the lying. He very well could have wiped our savings out in a weekend. He says he's going to pay it back but I want some advice on what to do. I get it's his life but if this gets worse it puts me and our kids at risk. I believe it to be incredibly reckless and could use some help as to if I'm being unfair or not.

Also any advice on people who have dealt with gamblers in the past would be appreciated. Thank you so much.

Doge was a pump and dump. It was even promoted on forums that it was being pumped. People gullible enough to buy things like that should not be investing.

Do not let him use joint savings to cover his gambling losses. He will bleed you completely dry. He needs to pay off his credit card himself and you should split your finances away from him as much as possible. Change your bank password if he has access to that. Once the gambling fever hits he will empty your account. I'm sure he'll be thinking 'I'll just borrow it for a while, make a huge profit and then put it back'; that's what all gamblers think. You can't trust him with money anymore so please protect yourself.

I think gambling is one of the worst addictions. With alcohol, the alcoholic can only drink a certain amount before they pass out, the same with drugs. Even a coke addict would only need to spend a few hundred pounds a day on cocaine, but a gambler could spend tens of thousands in the blink of an eye; remortgaging the house, getting multiple credit cards, draining savings and stealing from loved ones.

It's your choice, and I know you love him, but I couldn't be with someone who would drag me into poverty. Without trust there is nothing.

Mine is also wrapped up in this new stocks craze because of following the Instagram and Twitter people to the point where Ive made it clear I don’t want to hear about it again. He was telling me how stupid I am for not investing and ‘just wait for a year or two’ His money, his business, I’ve been stupid with money in the past but I won’t be joining finances while the recklessness is a “thing” as I want to go and buy a house next year and massively saving. I won’t have that put at risk, with it without a gambler.

I’ve also noticed it very quickly goes from “the odd £20” to “£50 on this one cause it’s going to take off” to “I’m going to start putting £200 a month in”

Then “Oh, it’s just gone down 20%”
Fancy that

The lying and betrayal of trust is the biggie for me. Having been through (going through) something very similar, I'd say walk away now. He may not do it again for a while or ever, but you really don't want to find yourself in a dodgy financial position years down the line when you have children etc. I know I'm biased - I should have walked the next time I was lied to, but by then we had 2 children, a big mortgage etc. I was too scared to go, but in hindsight, it would have been the better decision.

@iwanttotravel

We have our own bank accounts and own credit cards.

He has a spend limit of 10k on his.

I have an e saver we save into where we save in. It's in my name and not joint, he can't actually take money from it unless he logs into my bank, which he could, but hasn't. It's all on his credit cards.

He gets his money each month and I get mine when are wages come in it is all down the middle.

We also have a separate LISA's which we both have 6k in each which we are saving for a house.

He could access this and incur a heavy penalty.

I think if I gave him half the savings we have he would spend it. Where as right now we are supposed to be saving towards a wedding/house.

I hate I don't feel I can trust him

For the love of all that is holy -

1. Don't marry him
2. Don't pay for this ridiculous fuck up from your savings, he needs to feel the pain of having to work hard to pay it off himself, penny by penny.
3. Make sure he cannot access your accounts - you mention he could log into your accounts. FGS stop this immediately.

Like many posters on here, I am speaking from experience. Some people are just shit with money and prone to impulsive decisions. Do not expose yourself to having your life utterly ruined. There are so many threads on here from women who are further along the line, married, and have discovered huge five figure losses. Their lifestyles are fucked as he works to pay off the debt. If they leave, not only is the debt half theirs but he also gets half of their assets and pension.

It really is not worth the risk, and much as you love him you need to be very cold hearted and clear headed when you look at what marriage would mean if he does anything like this again.

Op have you heard of GAMFAM
They support family of gamblers. Might be useful talking to someone with specific knowledge of being family of someone with a gambling issue.

This would be a relationship ended for me personally because I hate feeling financially insecure.

Morning everyone.

I feel a little hollow today, like my mind is trying to find ways of minimising this.

He only spent 1/10 of savings and he has a repayment plan in mind and he does seem genuinely sorry and knows it was stupid.

But I still feel that no matter how much he actually spent that this has scale for growth.

I think about marriage and how I would be financially responsible for someone who feels they can make big financial decisions without me and then lie about it.

If he just messed up and said 'I've messed up' I may of gotten over it. But it's the way he managed to convince himself I was stupid enough to believe anything he said. And that he was losing and it still didn't click in his head, he just kept pumping more and more into it.

Wether the investments pay off or not doesn't really matter to me. It's more the way that now by marrying him I'm almost betting on him to not mess up again and I'm really not the gambling type.

@AIMD

Op have you heard of GAMFAM They support family of gamblers. Might be useful talking to someone with specific knowledge of being family of someone with a gambling issue.

This would be a relationship ended for me personally because I hate feeling financially insecure.

I do feel like talking about it and this thread has helped a lot, thank you for the suggestion. I will look into this.

I wouldn’t be able to forgive him let alone trust him.
Please don’t marry him; you’ll spend your life second guessing him and never being able to relax. That’s no way to spend your life.

Mine is also wrapped up in this new stocks craze because of following the Instagram and Twitter people to the point where Ive made it clear I don’t want to hear about it again

Twitter, instagram and many forums are an absolute disgrace with regards to promoting or 'ramping' various stocks. Unfortunately it is usually those who suggest the most ridiculous upwards share price predictions that get the most likes, thumbs up, likes or equivalent. These places are an echo chamber and investors would do well to ignore it all. These forms of media are the very definition of an echo chamber.

Those who actually know what they are talking about and provide balanced views or valuations are often shouted down.

I really feel for you op, I hope you have good family to support you.

He's gambling not investing. Tread carefully and certainly restrict his access to the finances.

The Gamestop thing was clearly a pump and dump orchestrated by people who knew what they were doing. Beat the system! Nasty hedge funds! This caused people who have no idea of what they're doing to pile in. Price goes up. The pumpers sell at a massive profit. Prices crashes back down. (the hedge funds will have adjusted their strategy and have probably massive offset any losses...)

Bitcoin and crypto? Emperors new clothes all the way. If you can afford to do it, then have a punt. At some point the hype and novelty will wear off or God forbid someone cracks the code. (You can counterfeit currency but the difference is the Government stamp down on this)

I really feel for you OP.

I would also highly recommend you contact GAMFAM.

It is actually very difficult to articulate the absolute MISERY that a gambler can bring to your life.

The dynamic of your relationship has been changed forever.

You will NEVER be equal.

You will NEVER trust him fully again.

He lied repeatedly, implied you were stupid and lied on your children's lives.

No parent in there right mind, religious or not would EVER swear on their children's lives.
NEVER.

He has an issue with gambling.
I have no doubt about that.
He may still be in the early stages, but he gets a hit from it and he is hugely vulnerable to it.

Gambling in my view is worse than alcoholism in a partner.
You can literally be left homeless from debts that are stacked up in no amount of time.

OP, you HAVE to educate yourself about gambling.
Speaking to a GAMFAM advisor will be an eye opener.

Your children need one well parent.
I know you love him, but you and your children need protecting from the shit show that he could bring your way.

Do not marry him.
Do not buy a house with him.
Do not align your finances.

Keep yourself safe financially.

Despite his upset, regret and promises, you need to focus on his lies.

When you live with a gambler, you always feel like the parent not the partner and you NEVER have true PEACE.

You sound like a sensible woman.
Never before have you needed a wise head more.

Investors that are actually gamblers are hugely vulnerable to the sunken cost fallacy.

Read up about it.

The stock market can be a hugely dangerous place for those who know what they are doing, not to mind those that don't.

Serious investors do huge research and can still be caught with unknowns.

Gambling since the lockdown has gone through the roof.

There is nothing more dangerous that someone thinking something is a sure bet with a credit card in their hand.

Teenage boys as young as 16 are betting on soccer matches to give the game extra excitement, and sport is usually what reels in men early.

For women lotto cards and slot machines are traditionally favoured by them.

One of my children has a part time shop job and has told me that the same faces are in every day, both men and women spending £40-70 a day!

Lots of them too.

Completely terrifying.

Many many billions are made on the backs of misery in family's through gambling.

The vast majority of people who invest like this lose money:

www.datadriveninvestor.com/2020/09/23/why-most-people-lose-money-day-trading-and-how-to-not-be-one-of-them/#

But there's nothing wrong with holding individual stocks in a long-term portfolio as long as they are just part of the mix and you are well diversified with other investments. My DH bought some Apple and Amazon shares in 2009 and those have done rather well.

If you can get him to see that he's going about this completely wrong there might be a chance of salvaging things. If he continues to think that he can get fast, big scores in the market it's hopeless.

As for cryptocurrencies, they're purely speculative. There's no cash flow associated with them as there is in bonds or dividend-paying stocks. There's no asset value to them. The only way to make money is if greater fools keep showing up to buy them for more than you paid.

I've read your replies but not sure of anyone else had mentioned this.
Cryptocurrency is very volatile. You can be down 20% in one day , and then up 35% the next day.
As long as he hasnt sold the currency he hasnt made a loss.
Unfortunately the last 2 days there has been a bit of a crash. But likely could be double in a couple of months. As long as he holds. But then again it might take a couple of years to get back to that level.
If hes only bought a few days ago he probably doesnt realise how volatile it is. Just make sure he does sell unless it has increased in price. Although Doge is a bit of a meme coin which only increased because a few celebs got behind it. Though I guess it could also increase back in price but would take a lot longer.

My biggest concern would be actually that he hasn’t just taken a gamble and made an unwise investment. I would be really worried that he has used some apps and may not have done his proper due diligence. Currently, there are so many scams with fake apps that look scarily real and which give the illusion of having a full wallet but funds then disappear and cannot be accessed. There are loads of pseudo sites using the name of the few legit cryptocurrency companies. So, I would want to see proof that those investments are even legit!

"someone cracks the code" what the bitcoin code 😂😂😂 I mean I don't know that much but that's funny.

Cryptocurrency isn't a total joke, most alt coins are more like tech companies, solving problems. Decentralised currency has enormous potential for third world or unstable currencies. Obviously something like DOGE is a dumb meme but many aren't.

The much worse issue here is the lying and the willingness to use shared money. DH and I invest including a small proportion in some crypto (not trading though) but would never ever use money without discussing first.

As pps have mentioned crypto is so volatile. I'm hoping based on today's numbers he's found much if his investment is back today and possibly up a teensy bit depending what he bought. Doesn't bring the trust back though.

Unstable countries not currencies

I've already commented on the OP situation so won't repeat myself, what the DH did was just wrong on so many levels.

But to those saying crypto is crazy, no value etc, everyone loses money - that's not quite true.

Cryptocurrency and technology has use cases that do give it value. One of those is belief in it as an asset, in a similar way to gold or money. It's volatile because of many factors. I would never recommend anyone invest in it, but I also wouldn't recommend dismissing it. It's interesting, growing and there is a whole wealth of information relating to it. If you're interested, do your research and put aside any get rich quick ideas and treat it seriously like any other cash purchase. Large institutions are entering the market such as Paypal - and who knows where it will be in 5 years. However the stock market is undoubtedly more of a safe bet for traditional investors. What is for certain is anyone wandering in looking to get their life savings for a 'lambo' is likely to get burned. I have lost nothing, and gained in crypto BUT I did this in a very boring, long way. Putting small amounts in, that I was prepared to lose over time (dollar cost averaging) - selling some when prices rose to cover my costs. Very boring and no life changing amounts involved, but I do understand the market and it's shifts.

That's exactly how we approach is Nora

@Noranorav

You're right *@LolaButt*. OP, ADA has been around for a while, it's an established 'alt' coin that many believe in for it's use cases. Don't know about AO and Doge is just mad (see above!). Do some research on what is being said in the crypto space about these coins. If part of a general market 'pull back', the coins may be consolidating their value. If tanking because everyone is dumping for a specific reason e.g it's been outlawed that's worse. No advice from me because that wouldn't be wise but do take a look at Nugget News too - aussie guy who explains crypto and also predicts what coins will do based on their technical signals. All the very best of luck to you.

Probably IOTA

You could also take a look at the GamCare forum, OP.

There is a family and friends section where you will find useful advice. Your dp could also benefit from the stories and advice of the recovering gamblers who post there.

"someone cracks the code" what the bitcoin code I mean I don't know that much but that's funny

Why is it funny? Theoretically a powerful enough computer could crack the encryption. However potentially as computers get more powerful that could lead to stronger encryption too so it works both ways.