Partner losing £££ in stocks

[iwanttotravel]

Good evening Mumsnet!

Hope someone can tell me if I am being unreasonable or not as I am unsure if I am over reacting. But I am feeling really hurt and embarrassed.

My DP of more then 10 years took an interest in cryptocurrency over the weekend. I don't know anything about it and find the whole thing confusing tbh. And although he hasn't traded in stocks before he does have investment qualifications. He told me he put ££ in some particular stock as a bit of fun, I smiled and nodded, his money his life, his fun and all that...

Yesterday I saw one of his tweets talking to someone about a different stock (not the one he had mentioned to me) and that he had bought and bought and bought again as it was low and a 'steal' apparently.

I asked him about it and he told me he had bought a bit more, (still only within ££) but I found out he had went over his monthly allowance on his credit card so would need to borrow money from savings to cover him to avoid interest charges.

This upset me as he effectively gambled our savings without asking me. He said he would cover the cost the following month and made me feel like it was his business not mine. We went to bed. I forgot about it.

Today. He messages me 'may have messed up a little bit'. That while he was purchasing, some of the payments were not processing and were in fact duplicating entries!!!! He had actually spent 10X the amount of what he originally said £££. This would all need to come from our savings and he will pay back in installments.

I told him I knew he was lying. He denied. Everything he was saying didn't add up. But he looked me dead in the eye and told me this was a bank error. He swore on our kids lives. And then long story short, he did lie and admitted to all the purchases. He lied.

I'm so sorry this went on for so long. I'm just in tears. He said he felt embarrassed about telling me. These stocks are tanking and he's losing money and I somehow feel sorry for him but he looked me dead in the eye and lied through his teeth.

I've been thinking about handing my engagement ring back. I just don't like the lying. He very well could have wiped our savings out in a weekend. He says he's going to pay it back but I want some advice on what to do. I get it's his life but if this gets worse it puts me and our kids at risk. I believe it to be incredibly reckless and could use some help as to if I'm being unfair or not.

Also any advice on people who have dealt with gamblers in the past would be appreciated. Thank you so much.

But now our joint money is involved and I feel like I've also got something at stake.

Why is it your joint money? Don't let it be. Remove your half and put it your own account. Let him pay off his own debt using his own money. Regardless of whether this gamble does eventually pay off, he is quite likely to keep on gambling from what you've said. I wouldn't marry him and I would have a discussion about you keeping control of joint money to avoid him putting you and your children at financial risk

I agree with mysticpizza. This man needs to be kicked to the curb.

He may improve or he may not. I suggest you read closely what Wineiscooling said, cut your losses and spare yourself having to look over your shoulder for the next decade or more.

But if you want to give him a second chance, then don't give him a cuddle. Ask him to leave. Kick him out and show him you mean business. Only if he comes back and cuts up his cards and goes to GA should you even consider taking him back. He has got to acknowledge how much he has messed up and put you, your dcs and financial security at risk. Only then should you continue with this loser. And then you can look over your shoulder for the rest of the time.

The last thing he needs is a cuddle and someone else dealing with the problem he has created. If you pick up the pieces, if your savings clear the debt, then he’s got away with it. He won’t grasp the cost of what he’s done unless he’s the one making sacrifices to pay the debt.

It sounds like he has no idea what he is doing.

I know someone who has made so much from cryptocurrencies that he can now retire, but that's quite unusual & you need to know what you're doing.

Does he gamble by other means?

Unfortunately with lockdown investing in the latest 'sure thing' stock seems to be a common passtime. It is really important that he does not try and recoup his losses on the next sure thing.

Out of interest which shares were they?

Also:

Don't point him in the direction of matched betting. If by a slim chance he hasn't crossed the threshold into addiction already, it's just a gateway. He's already doing slots and sports and it's a way for the bookies to showcase their toxic wares. Bear in mind the the house never loses and they invest heavily in tech and expertise to make sure that remains the case.

DOGE. then he did two others but I don't know their names. AO something I think and ADA it might have been

These are NOT stocks. They are alternative 'cryptocurrency' with bugger all fundamental value.

He is NOT investing. He is gambling.

It would be a deal breaker for me.

Gambling your joint savings and then lying about it?

No way back from that. Don't let him drag you down with him.

Now our joint money is involved and I feel like I've also got something at stake

Otherwise known as the sunk costs fallacy, as in you'll get it back if you just hang on a bit longer, whereas what you're actually facing is more loss

Again, is this really how you want to live?

Oh goodness.

I love cryptocurrency, but it can be incredibly dangerous for people who just rush headlong into it.

Also I'd be a bit concerned given that he has mentioned 10x the amount that he orginally said he bought that he has been trading on margin (where you make 10x the amount, if the crypto goes up, but lose 10x the amount if the crypto goes down potentially wiping you out). It attracts highly sophisticated traders with deep pockets....and dumb gamblers who the traders make their money off.

If there is anything left get it out of the platform asap. If you cant directly sell to sterling from there, move it to coinbase where you can change it to sterling and send it to your bank account, might take a few days for verification for you to actually get it to your bank, but you can keep it in GBP in there in the meantime so you cant lose any more and delete the app as soon as you have the crypto out of it.

Castle Craig in the Scottish borders treats cryptocurrency gambling addictions and if there is even a sniff of this happening again, I'd get in touch with them for advice.

God op I'm sorry, that is upsetting. My blood ran cold as I have been defrauded by family. Personally I'd ignore the comments about crypto currency this and that. If it wasn't crypto currency it would be something else. I do sympathise, lots of people are talking about it and it does sound exciting but the point is...he is impulsive/easily led and what is concerning is how he could seemingly disconnect and think it was okay to spend your joint money.

As pps have said the only way forward is a rock solid zero access to joint funds or savings. Do not trust him financially at all. I would want to know if he understands how he has hurt you and what damage he has done to the relationship and what he is going to do to move himself forward.

Please don't go thinking you can fix, rescue or save him. You sound lovely and it is a very hard sad lesson to learn ... but people only change if and when they want to. Sure, we can cheer them on and encourage them and believe in them but don't over help as it is thankless. You have every right to be disappointed and you deserve more.

@mumwon

www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/bitcoin-price-crash-why-is-cryptocurrency-market-collapsing/ar-BB1dWqFV?ocid=msedgntp as I previously stated please the FCA advise - anybody who thinks this is a good idea - its extremely risky

This article's headline is weird. The actual article doesn't say that it's collapsing at all.

Why does it have to be from your money though? Do you share all finances? All major purchases?

Would it help if you split finances so he has no access to anything you saved until you can know whether he is safe with money or if he will get you into debt?

I would give him the benefit of the doubt – he may have been so mortified that he just couldn't admit what he'd done, & I have some sympathy for that... as long as he learns from this disaster and it doesn't become a pattern of repeated behaviour. He HAS to earn back your trust, and pay back what he spent of your shared savings, though, and he cannot cut corners there.

Obviously you don't want to marry a gambling addict, so don't commit to further merging of finances or marriage until you feel able to trust him again.... Also – keep separate savings too, that he can't access. Just in case. Personally I think all women should

Ask yourself if you'd be that bothered if he made £££££

The actual article doesn't say that it's collapsing at all

Just wait until the economy opens up and retail 'investors' can use their money to have breaks away in the uk, buy cars, clothes, go to pubs, out for meals, maybe even abroad. I have a strong feeling a lot of money will be coming out of the crypto bubble and quickly.

I don't believe the dramatic rise up from November/December onwards when the much of USA and Europe was shutting down is in the slightest bit coincidental.

Most people who gamble on cryptocurrency will lose money.

Stocks at least have dividends and you own a bit of a company ( if you're long term investing and not gambling on short term movements).

Crypto is buying a number on a spreadsheet with the hope an even bigger idiot will buy it later on at a higher price. The ROI is strongly negative, the very design of it guarantees this.

You said he knew about investments due to work. If he does and he invested in crypto then he went way beyond his comfort zone. It's unregulated cowboy territory. Great if you have the balls and exit the right time but as far as I am concerned no different to a Ponzi scheme, there is no inherent underlying value in crypto - it's not a stock which returns a dividend, it's not a precious metal which is finite in quantity, used industrially or acts as a store of value. It does nothing and isnt regulated.

Crypto investors would do well to read the madness of crowds.

@SendMeHome

Fuck me. I don’t know if I’d break up with him over this, depending on his behaviour, but I’d have massive issues with his cockiness and lying, and even bigger ones with him swearing on your kids lives and point-blank lying to your face. This would be a big issue for me.

Why is swearing on your kids lives so bad?! I mean really - anyone can say it, its just words isn't it?! Lying however is actually doing something wrong as is being cocky and a bit of a cunt. But 'swearing on yer kids lives' is just well, a bit wanky. If you believe that means you arent doing/would never do anything wrong, then you are to blame

Your post really resonated with me.

My DH spent £30k on gambling until he eventually came clean just after I gave up my job to be a housewife.

We are comfortable financially and we worked through it, and recovered the loss in a year. But it was hard; I felt betrayed, like he had gambled our long term future away and that he was reckless. It took a lot longer for him to regain the trust than it did for him to re-make the money.

We are in a better place now (three years later) but I still have a lot of anxiety around money.

It was hard for him because he felt de-masculinised; he was (and is) the main breadwinner and I ended up working double shifts to repay his losses. At times, I felt really resentful because it set us back by a year and all our long term plans were put on hold.

The best thing you can do is keep communicating. We never stopped talking about it, and we made a plan together to re-make the money in a set time frame. By making him feel part of the team and part of the solution to fixing the problem, it helped.

Crypto isn’t investing it’s speculating. IE high class gambling.
And that’s from someone who thinks many crypto will go up significantly in value over the coming years. But it’s not investing. Investing in stocks is literally buying part of a company that is worth X million/billion dollars. You own that business. Crypto has no inherent value whatsoever UNLESS enough people/institutions continue to agree that it does/will in the future as an alternative to “real” money. We’re not really at that stage yet. But we might get there.

Hmm. It does sound like he has form for gambling and so that's what drew him into a really really bad episode of poor decision making. The classic scenario is usually when you start to lose to then make more and more bad decisions in the desperate urge to recover their losses. Maybe that's what he did. Maybe it was simply being carried away with the excitement and chance to win big.

The key question is what has he learnt from this? Has he sworn that he will never gamble again and that he will get support? It is very serious because he stands to lose all your joint money and it impacts you both. It is not a bad night or 'making a mess' it's a gambling addiction. Don't let him minimise his 'silliness'.

Sometimes people think stocks and shares are different to betting on the horses - that they are business decisions. But they are not, its still gambling. I know two people who have completely fucked up their lives through playing with stocks and shares. One lost £1M which he had saved up over many years working in a highly paid profession. The other had to sell his house and as a result his wife left him. She couldn't forgive him gambling their family home away.

@SachaStark
But ADA is decent and proven, and will slowly go back up, so stay in it for the long haul. Couple of years.

I agree I think ADA is decent. But I disagree it is “proven”. There is no proven Crypto at this stage. Which doesn’t mean you shouldn’t speculate in it. But it is still a shot in the dark so to speak. But perhaps a profitable one. Or perhaps not. Is it likely that some kind of crypto will be worth a fortune in the future (say 100/200 years). Sure, pretty likely. But good luck picking the right one and picking when exactly that is.

Sorry I didn't see Cam77 's post. They have a point about the inherent value of crypto. But you can fuck up bad on shares too if you don't know what you are doing and follow your emotions, going beyond what you can afford to lose.

DO NOT let him use your savings. He can get out of his own mess with this. Seek debt advice and sort out repayment for the credit cards himself. Don't give him the savings as a cushion op.

I couldn't forgive this.