To think that vaccination cards are very unfair.

[studychick81]

I can see why they are needed but I think it's very unfair how they are going to be used. I am 39 and have no health issues. I am not sure when I will get the vaccination as I ve read they haven't even decided groups beyond group 9. So, that means it could be ages before I get any normality back in my life like going to restaurants, pubs, concerts and holidays. I am unsure if I should book a holiday in August as I don't know if I will be vaccinated by then.

I am feel quite cross about this and my parents and friends parents (70+) are booking holidays and cruises etc and will get their lives back so much quicker than I will. Yet IMO my age group and below are the ones that have probably made the greatest sacrifices, juggling home schooling, work and studying, financial worries. Everyone I know in the 60+ category have spent their days gardening, knitting and being bored but with little stress and sacrifice, yet they will be the first to get their lives back.

Not only it is likely my age group and below will feel the lasting effects most from this and will likely pay the most for this with tax increases etc, we will be the last to get the benefits of coming out of lockdown. I don't think they should insist on vaccination cards until everyone is vaccinated.

I know some 50/60s are probably still working, I know there will be exceptions but generally 60 isn't working age

This is incredible. So many MN's are either incredibly young, and/or have no older relatives. Literally everyone I know worked into their late 60's, early 70's. Not because they had to necessarily, but because they wanted to, and were able to. So bizarre that so many think 60+ are all retired.......

Probably depends on what sector of society you’re in. More physical jobs often require earlier retirement, there’s still a lot of ageism in the workplace with people being pushed out as well. Until recently retiring in early 60s was common because you could claim your pension. However now you can’t do that people are having to work longer and it’s much more common to work longer. I think it’s always been uncommon to retire in your 50s. I’m not sure I know anyone who gave up work that early unless they had serious health issues!

[quote Blockedoff]@haggisandmarsba

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

Try booking through here, don't wait to be called. [/quote]
I've tried that and says I can't.

And what about all the many young people who depend on the travel and hospitality industries for their livelihoods? Should they all wait until Your Royal Highness has been vaccinated before they can start work again?

The sooner people are able to get out about and spending again (within reasonably safe bounds), the better for everybody.

You’re being super selfish... you may have to wait but you’ve got more summers left 🤣
Seriously though... most vulnerable first is the right way to do this. I teach, have been in school through all lockdowns, have had COVID once already and am anxious about getting it again but I appreciate that my elderly parent’s and CEV DB come before me in the pecking order because their life is more important than me getting 2 weeks on the costa del chav

@Hopeisnotastrategy

And what about all the many young people who depend on the travel and hospitality industries for their livelihoods? Should they all wait until Your Royal Highness has been vaccinated before they can start work again?

The sooner people are able to get out about and spending again (within reasonably safe bounds), the better for everybody.

But if they haven't been vaccinated if they bring the vaccination cards in how will that work? So they are good enough to serve the vaccinated in this job and risk themselves but not have the freedom to enjoy it themselves. Strictly speaking according to the vaccination cards they shouldn't be there anyway whether doing their jobs or as a customer. The lines are very blurred.

@Abraxan

But telling the unvaccinated, who are very low risk and can manage their own risk, and are now low risk of effecting those who are vaccinated that they can't visit a cinema, arena, pub or travel within the uk or abroad.

All the articles I've seen where this is discussed says that a negative test can be used in place of a vaccination proof.
So no one is discriminated against.

Personally I can't see the issue with an either or scenario, if it means things can open up a bit earlier. It also means the most vulnerable in society - those who are vulnerable but cannot have the vaccine - aren't having to be kept hidden away even longer.

I talked to dd about this. She's 18y so will be the back of the queue for vaccines. She is hoping to go to festivals this,summer, at least one was postponed from last summer. I mentioned the vaccine/negative test thing and she just shrugged. Taking a test was not an issue or a barrier and she'd do it, if not been vaccinated by August. Her friends are the same. The thought of it doesn't bother them at all - mind they are all students so have had to have tests to come home, go back, etc,

But will these tests be free if you aren't in an area with test centres? Will it be £60 like the tests were that you need to travel?

@JassyRadlett

But telling the unvaccinated, who are very low risk and can manage their own risk, and are now low risk of effecting those who are vaccinated that they can't visit a cinema, arena, pub or travel within the uk or abroad.

But the issue is that the unvaccinated wouldn’t just be managing their own risk. They’d be asking to manage the risk of businesses and workers in those businesses and other patrons in those businesses, as well as manage the risk of the whole country if we continued with high transmission enabling new variants to emerge.

Covid is unfortunately not a solo game.

Hasn't that been the case every time they have been allowed to open though?

@haggisandmarsbar

I am outraged that I have been eligible for the vaccine as a 25 non-healthcare worker with no high-risk conditions when my disable/ill and 65yo grandma is ineligible.

How did you get the vaccine then?

I am CV but still haven't had it, it could be another two months before I am called which is frustrating because I don't have the choice to work from home, I have to go in.

I am in the US/California (as the system differs state by state) and was eligible on the Basis of my work under the 1b phase, but I don’t agree with the selection they have chosen as most frontline workers are not being vaccinated (I am thinking grocery workers etc...) and disable/vulnerable people either, yet some people, like me, who work from home currently and have no contact with anyone where chosen to get put in phase 1b. I assume because they expect us to go back to work amongst the first few ones but still IMO people who work with the public currently should be prioritized, alongside people who are ill or disable.

Hence why I feel for you even though we aren’t part of the same country. Not sure who is being prioritized in the UK but it does seem like they also haven’t started vaccinated frontline workers which is a shame. Hope you get your own appointment quickly!

[quote SparkysMagicPiano]@Linning

I don't know if it is the same everywhere in France, but I registered myself at a local pharmacy and they will call with an appointment. OH tried to register himself but they said that at 66 he is too old! Not sure if this will now change as AZ is deemed OK for the over 65s.

I agree that the "how to get a vaccine" message is not really disseminated very clearly here in France.

You might find some useful info here, I would ignore the bit where it says 50-64 with other issues as that is clearly not the case where we are.

www.sante.fr/cf/centres-vaccination-covid.html?fbclid=IwAR2EP8gwuhnm_MapW7DL4yrMqppSwVU8sfV8K4jZkJ728g9m_9Xyho064-U

Sorry for slightly derailing the thread![/quote]
Thank you, I really appreciate the information and will have my grandma check with her local pharmacy!!

@Hopeisnotastrategy

And what about all the many young people who depend on the travel and hospitality industries for their livelihoods? Should they all wait until Your Royal Highness has been vaccinated before they can start work again?

The sooner people are able to get out about and spending again (within reasonably safe bounds), the better for everybody.

Given that holidays are being cancelled for this summer because holiday companies won't take the risk then yes, they will have to. Cruise companies are saying they are going to vaccinate all of their staff but not all of the spoilt little snowflakes are going to be in that group are they.

If you don't like being called a spoilt little snowflake then quit with the 'Your Royal Highness' shit.

Hasn't that been the case every time they have been allowed to open though?

No, because the government has continued to have regulations to manage the risk at a community level, so it isn’t all about individuals managing their own risk. It’s why there have been mitigations to try to reduce the risk - particularly around capacity - which come at significant cost to the business. And why other businesses have not been able to reopen at all.

So the individuals haven’t been managing their own risk at all, without protections or mitigations for workers or the wider community. Currently, the downside of those mitigations have mostly fallen to the businesses involved. There’s a decent argument that after a year of being either shut down or operating in a very unprofitable way, it would be fair to give those businesses the chance to operate more normally by moving the mitigation burden elsewhere (especially where that mitigation wouldn’t come at a financial cost and would likely improve safety for their workforces.)

@studychick81 so which of your posts are true? Your parents have booked a holiday or they haven't because your father is CV?

Waits to be ignored!

But if they haven't been vaccinated if they bring the vaccination cards in how will that work? So they are good enough to serve the vaccinated in this job and risk themselves but not have the freedom to enjoy it themselves.

The risk to them would (almost certainly) be much lower if all their customers were vaccinated, though. Which is certainly a factor.

@JassyRadlett

But if they haven't been vaccinated if they bring the vaccination cards in how will that work? So they are good enough to serve the vaccinated in this job and risk themselves but not have the freedom to enjoy it themselves.

The risk to them would (almost certainly) be much lower if all their customers were vaccinated, though. Which is certainly a factor.

So if the risk is soooo low, let the unvaccinated who want to go in too.

[quote Blockedoff]@studychick81 so which of your posts are true? Your parents have booked a holiday or they haven't because your father is CV?

Waits to be ignored!

[/quote]
Sorry, didn't know I d put my parents, think I meant friends parents. My parents have not booked a holiday as my df is CV.

@JassyRadlett

Hasn't that been the case every time they have been allowed to open though?

No, because the government has continued to have regulations to manage the risk at a community level, so it isn’t all about individuals managing their own risk. It’s why there have been mitigations to try to reduce the risk - particularly around capacity - which come at significant cost to the business. And why other businesses have not been able to reopen at all.

So the individuals haven’t been managing their own risk at all, without protections or mitigations for workers or the wider community. Currently, the downside of those mitigations have mostly fallen to the businesses involved. There’s a decent argument that after a year of being either shut down or operating in a very unprofitable way, it would be fair to give those businesses the chance to operate more normally by moving the mitigation burden elsewhere (especially where that mitigation wouldn’t come at a financial cost and would likely improve safety for their workforces.)

But if the majority of the population still isn't vaccinated and they can't access these places, those people most likely to go to these places on a regular basis, I expect they will be working at a lower capacity anyway and they won't have the high levels of numbers they normally trade with anyway. They are having to turn away their core customers.

Sorry, didn't know I d put my parents, think I meant friends parents. My parents have not booked a holiday as my df is CV.

Oh yeah obviously, you really didn't mean to completely write that you were angry with your parents!

@studychick81

You also forgot to mention your DD mental health issues until so late on in the thread!

Will cruise companies be allowed to do this? Again, it it ethical that they are taking vaccinations off those in priority groups, probably come younger CV people, so they can open up cruises and go on holiday? The government have always said they will prioritise vaccinations on age, this is totally going against the grain. Surely those CV or 50+ would not be happy with being pushed further down the list so the older people can bigger off on a cruise. Now who's being entitled if that's the case?

@Blockedoff

Sorry, didn't know I d put my parents, think I meant friends parents. My parents have not booked a holiday as my df is CV.

Oh yeah obviously, you really didn't mean to completely write that you were angry with your parents!

@studychick81

You also forgot to mention your DD mental health issues until so late on in the thread!

Because it's not relevant and it's nothing to do with the topic of vaccination cards. The thread has gone completely off topic to other subjects which are nothing to do with my OP.

Because it's not relevant and it's nothing to do with the topic of vaccination cards. The thread has gone completely off topic to other subjects which are nothing to do with my OP.

@studychick81 but your anger because your parents dare to book a holiday is massive, it speaks of your nature! Your begrudging of them having enjoyment!

But then you remember they didn't book a holiday and somehow you just said they did by mistake?

It just shows your bitterness and it's really not nice.

I hope your parents enjoy their holiday!

But will these tests be free if you aren't in an area with test centres? Will it be £60 like the tests were that you need to travel?

I suspect they'll be free, like the lateral flow tests at schools, universities and increasing number of work places are. I suspect you'll be able to, get them at the venue, do the test and wait 20 minutes or so until the response comes through, then go in. Might mean you can't turn up last minute to places I guess though.

@studychick81

Will cruise companies be allowed to do this? Again, it it ethical that they are taking vaccinations off those in priority groups, probably come younger CV people, so they can open up cruises and go on holiday? The government have always said they will prioritise vaccinations on age, this is totally going against the grain. Surely those CV or 50+ would not be happy with being pushed further down the list so the older people can bigger off on a cruise. Now who's being entitled if that's the case?

How is it different to Saga and other holiday firms who only offer holidays to those over a certain age?

No one will be able to go on holiday until the restrictions are lifted and the govt allows it. Even then, where you can go abroad will be dictated by the relevant foreign govts (final destinations, airports en route etc).

I imagine cruise companies will be waiting with baited breath to find which countries will let them dock and disembark their passengers. By being able to prove all passengers/staff have been vaccinated will enable them to dock in more countries.

The cruise companies that have a mandatory vaccination policy will also become very popular as no-one (whether personally vaccinated or not) will be happy spending a week onboard a high risk ship (cruises are like hospitals and all inclusive hotels in that viruses etc run rampant in them due to so many people in close proximity). I'd happily have a cruise on a ship with that policy but wouldn't touch a ship without, with a barge pole, for a few years yet!

CV group is already in progress.
The national site is already into 60y+

The government plans for all adults 18+ to have had their first vaccine by 31 July.

None of these vaccine proof cards, etc are even being considered until the summer.
As the first vaccine gives the most amount of immunity then it's likely it would be based on one vaccine at that stage.

Test kits likely to be freely available and be part of the theatre/event process and package, so many people are already eligible to access lateral flow kits for free anyway.

I think people are worrying about them prematurely.

But if the majority of the population still isn't vaccinated and they can't access these places, those people most likely to go to these places on a regular basis, I expect they will be working at a lower capacity anyway and they won't have the high levels of numbers they normally trade with anyway. They are having to turn away their core customers.

That would be a business decision for them. I suspect for a lot of places, demand will not be an issue as there’s a lot of pent up demand in the system. And if it’s a choice between ‘anyone at a third capacity’ (or if you’re some venues, no one’ and ‘half your usual clientele because only a certain proportion of the adult population can access it, but potential to go higher’ - well, I’m not a business genius, but one of those looks better to me.

We’re looking at a situation where probably close to half of the adult population will have had both doses by June. And that includes some pretty affluent and spendy demographics.