To think that vaccination cards are very unfair.

[studychick81]

I can see why they are needed but I think it's very unfair how they are going to be used. I am 39 and have no health issues. I am not sure when I will get the vaccination as I ve read they haven't even decided groups beyond group 9. So, that means it could be ages before I get any normality back in my life like going to restaurants, pubs, concerts and holidays. I am unsure if I should book a holiday in August as I don't know if I will be vaccinated by then.

I am feel quite cross about this and my parents and friends parents (70+) are booking holidays and cruises etc and will get their lives back so much quicker than I will. Yet IMO my age group and below are the ones that have probably made the greatest sacrifices, juggling home schooling, work and studying, financial worries. Everyone I know in the 60+ category have spent their days gardening, knitting and being bored but with little stress and sacrifice, yet they will be the first to get their lives back.

Not only it is likely my age group and below will feel the lasting effects most from this and will likely pay the most for this with tax increases etc, we will be the last to get the benefits of coming out of lockdown. I don't think they should insist on vaccination cards until everyone is vaccinated.

@Jackie2022 shame on you! Pander to the elderly!

Please do explain how you pandered to the elderly?

Some call it safeguarding them, some call it respect, some call it protecting them and the nhs. But you call it pandering? The government asked for the NHS to be protected.

Would you have suggested, we if ores the pandemic and just let them die, instead of pandering?

@ddl1

generally 60 isn't working age.

Huh??? 65 is official retirement age, and nowadays many people work for longer. Maybe in some jobs earlier retirement is common, but not in most.

It’s 66 actually.

And finally, what's all the rubbish about your age group 'paying more' for Covid than the 70 year old tax payer you were talking to earlier on? The basic tax rate now is, what, 20%? When I began work in 1979 it was 30% and that was lowered from 35% by Maggie Thatcher! So unless the tax rate increases by 10 or 15% you're not paying anything like the amount of tax paid over their lifetime by the average 70 year old!

When income tax was that high, most other taxes were lower (or didn't even exist), i.e. VAT, NIC, fuel duty, insurance premium tax, student loan repayments, workplace pension deductions, etc etc.

What's happened is that direct taxes like Income tax have fallen, but most indirect taxes like VAT have risen.

She can think what she likes but the rules on passports will be decided and be as cross as she likes, but it's not going to change a thing.

Moreover, the UK Govt doesn't even have the power to decide whether or not dozens of other countries, over which we have no jurisdiction, decide whether or not to impose restrictions on people being admitted to their country. I suspect the Govt will just have to fall in line with what all the other main travel hubs decide to do re vaccine passports.

@Kazzyhoward

She can think what she likes but the rules on passports will be decided and be as cross as she likes, but it's not going to change a thing.

Moreover, the UK Govt doesn't even have the power to decide whether or not dozens of other countries, over which we have no jurisdiction, decide whether or not to impose restrictions on people being admitted to their country. I suspect the Govt will just have to fall in line with what all the other main travel hubs decide to do re vaccine passports.

Agree and whatever the UK (or any other country) does will have to be fool proof and accessible (real time database) from any border force or police officer..... all going to be done by June/July?

Not a cat in hell's chance.

Agree and whatever the UK (or any other country) does will have to be fool proof and accessible (real time database) from any border force or police officer..... all going to be done by June/July? Not a cat in hell's chance.

Where there's a will, there's a way. We have a global system where you can apply online for a code that you can use when hiring a car abroad, so the car hire firm can check on your driving licence endorsements etc (now that they're not shown on your photo driving licence). The foreign car hire form just puts in the code to an app and they can see whether your licence is valid, has endorsements etc. A similar scheme could very quickly and easily be set up for vaccine passports. Apps are the future!

I agree with this. I think it's the reason for the about-turn on the part of the UK Government, after weeks of ruling out vaccine passports. They know that other countries are likely to require vaccination certificates. Their discomfort with the idea is very obvious.

It can be done, however. As I said earlier, there are countries (West African countries mainly, I think), which require visitors to produce a yellow fever certificate.

When income tax was that high, most other taxes were lower (or didn't even exist), i.e. VAT, NIC, fuel duty, insurance premium tax, student loan repayments, workplace pension deductions, etc etc

VAT - 1973
NIC - 1911
Fuel duty - 1908
Insurance premium tax - 1993
Student loans - not a tax, only 5% were graduates until the early 1990s
Workplace pensions - a tax reducing mechanism

So if we’re going to be factual that argument doesn’t fly.

Read between the lines- yes, OP, it is extremely unfair when the very people we have stayed in lockdown to protect go swanning off on holidays abroad.

Anybody here NOT in the above category , do not get angry, we are not talking about you!
If they want their holiday so badly (as vaccines don’t eliminate risk only reduce it) they don’t deserve to be protected. Stay home and wait like the rest of us

It’s 66 actually.

It's 67 actually. You can check your state pension age on the government website. I'm 55 and it tells me I can't get my state pension until my 67th birthday.

Retired people are able to go on multiple holidays throughout the year if they like

If they can afford it, you mean! Not all retired people are rich!

@iceicesunsun

It’s 66 actually.

It's 67 actually. You can check your state pension age on the government website. I'm 55 and it tells me I can't get my state pension until my 67th birthday.

Those a little older than you get theirs at 66. It’s currently 66, in future it will be 67 and then 68. It’s been a whole variety of ages for Waspi women.

@iceicesunsun for people retiring today it's 66.

Kazzyhoward

When income tax was that high, most other taxes were lower (or didn't even exist), i.e. VAT, NIC, fuel duty, insurance premium tax, student loan repayments, workplace pension deductions, etc etc.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax_in_the_United_Kingdom

Not sure where you're getting your information from to make such claims, is it the same place as the person who thought older people had benefitted from 0% mortgage rates? As mentioned by a PP pension contributions are tax deductible.

When income tax was that high, most other taxes were lower (or didn't even exist), i.e. VAT, NIC, fuel duty, insurance premium tax, student loan repayments, workplace pension deductions, etc etc

When income tax was higher people also paid higher rents and mortgages were ridiculously expensive - I paid 25% income tax, plus national insurance of 9% and >15% interest on my mortgage. When I sold my house (in Oxford, not a cheap place to buy) it was in negative equity and I lost 30k.

We haven't had it all easy either, no generation has.

@iceicesunsun

When income tax was that high, most other taxes were lower (or didn't even exist), i.e. VAT, NIC, fuel duty, insurance premium tax, student loan repayments, workplace pension deductions, etc etc

When income tax was higher people also paid higher rents and mortgages were ridiculously expensive - I paid 25% income tax, plus national insurance of 9% and >15% interest on my mortgage. When I sold my house (in Oxford, not a cheap place to buy) it was in negative equity and I lost 30k.

We haven't had it all easy either, no generation has.

Replied to add - I bought it for 82k and sold it for 52k, it was a standard 3 bedroom ex-council house.

Jeez. Why are people frothing at the mouth because they might not be able to go to Spain for a two week holiday until September?? Just do a staycation. I’m in a group that won’t get vaccinated til the summer. I really don’t care. We’ve all had to face crappy situations during this last 12 months; young, old and everyone in between.

What is this holiday you speak of?

I'm 49, various mh issues. Had my 1st jab today, fully expected to wait until May, as the government website said.
It would appear that in my county they are well organised.
I cant afford a holiday, what about meeeeeee? sarcasm

iceicesunsun

Let's not forget the out if control house price inflation of 1989 or mortgage indemnity insurance (mine was about 6% of the loan due to needing a 95% mortgage) or the staggering number of repossessions as rising interest rates put mortgage payments beyond the means of many. Or for that matter unemployment of more than 3 million (nearly 12%) in the early 80's and again in the early 90's or that the cost if clothing, food, holidays, cars and electrical goods relative to incomes was much higher.

@FOJN

iceicesunsun

Let's not forget the out if control house price inflation of 1989 or mortgage indemnity insurance (mine was about 6% of the loan due to needing a 95% mortgage) or the staggering number of repossessions as rising interest rates put mortgage payments beyond the means of many. Or for that matter unemployment of more than 3 million (nearly 12%) in the early 80's and again in the early 90's or that the cost if clothing, food, holidays, cars and electrical goods relative to incomes was much higher.

That and youth unemployment being 25% in my home town. Oh happy days.

@Livelovebehappy

Jeez. Why are people frothing at the mouth because they might not be able to go to Spain for a two week holiday until September?? Just do a staycation. I’m in a group that won’t get vaccinated til the summer. I really don’t care. We’ve all had to face crappy situations during this last 12 months; young, old and everyone in between.

Thanks ve had a staycation for the past year - 18 months. I would like to get away from it all. It's not just holidays they are talking about anyway, cafes, concerts and pubs were mentioned.

@Kazzyhoward

She can think what she likes but the rules on passports will be decided and be as cross as she likes, but it's not going to change a thing.

Moreover, the UK Govt doesn't even have the power to decide whether or not dozens of other countries, over which we have no jurisdiction, decide whether or not to impose restrictions on people being admitted to their country. I suspect the Govt will just have to fall in line with what all the other main travel hubs decide to do re vaccine passports.

Mmm, unfortunately you probably are right, we can't control what other countries do. I will stand against it as much as I can though.

I will also stand against any form of vaccination record needed to get into hospitality or holiday in this country too.

[quote Blockedoff]@Jackie2022 shame on you! Pander to the elderly!

Please do explain how you pandered to the elderly?

Some call it safeguarding them, some call it respect, some call it protecting them and the nhs. But you call it pandering? The government asked for the NHS to be protected.

Would you have suggested, we if ores the pandemic and just let them die, instead of pandering?[/quote]
Would the same have been done in the reverse situation I wonder? Locking down for children and young people? Would the older generation accepted it and have the same view they have now? I think not.

Would the same have been done in the reverse situation I wonder? Locking down for children and young people? Would the older generation accepted it and have the same view they have now? I think not

I think you’re completely wrong, I’m pretty sure we would. Anyway it’s time the idea that young people locked down for the benefit of older generations is put to bed. We all locked down to slow down the spread of the virus and minimise demand on the NHS.

The most vulnerable have given up the most, regardless of age. There are people in care homes who haven’t seen their families for over a year, shielding people who have barely left the house. They’re the ones I feel sorry for, not someone who’s catastrophising about “losing a year” in their 20s.

@spanieleyes

Surely it's down to each business/organisation or indeed country to decide? If Greece will only let tourists in who have been vaccinated, that's down to them. Similarly, if cinemas insist on the same, that's their decision.

Agree about Greece. But there are discriminatory laws in this country. It could open the floodgates for all sorts of decisions about who they can and can't let in. Won't let BAEM in as studies show they are more at risk, won't let families in as kids are super spreaders, it could go on and on. That's what it amounts to saying those who au vaccinated- typically the younger generation can't do something through absolutely no fault of their own. It wouldn't be allowed in any other situation. There needs to be a blanket rule for all, otherwise it's discriminatory and I thought that was something we didn't tolerate here.