To think that vaccination cards are very unfair.

[studychick81]

I can see why they are needed but I think it's very unfair how they are going to be used. I am 39 and have no health issues. I am not sure when I will get the vaccination as I ve read they haven't even decided groups beyond group 9. So, that means it could be ages before I get any normality back in my life like going to restaurants, pubs, concerts and holidays. I am unsure if I should book a holiday in August as I don't know if I will be vaccinated by then.

I am feel quite cross about this and my parents and friends parents (70+) are booking holidays and cruises etc and will get their lives back so much quicker than I will. Yet IMO my age group and below are the ones that have probably made the greatest sacrifices, juggling home schooling, work and studying, financial worries. Everyone I know in the 60+ category have spent their days gardening, knitting and being bored but with little stress and sacrifice, yet they will be the first to get their lives back.

Not only it is likely my age group and below will feel the lasting effects most from this and will likely pay the most for this with tax increases etc, we will be the last to get the benefits of coming out of lockdown. I don't think they should insist on vaccination cards until everyone is vaccinated.

My next door neighbour is in his 70s and he still works part time. My mum retired at 65 but only because her company wouldn't allow part time working. She still does charity work now at 70.

Think of all the over 60s who spend their retirement working in food banks and charity shops. Honestly, some people have such a narrow world view.

Would the same have been done in the reverse situation I wonder? Locking down for children and young people? Would the older generation accepted it and have the same view they have now? I think not.

What makes you think that? In fact, opening schools for children as soon and as much as possible has been (quite rightly) a priority over opening many other things; and this has generally been accepted by older and younger adults alike.

I agree that vaccine passports for domestic purposes are not fair or appropriate until vaccines are available for all (though other countries that don't want to import the 'Kent variant' have the right to make their own decisions about how to control their own borders). But it also isn't fair to kick older people - and by implication also younger disabled or vulnerable people - and treat them all as spoilt brats who are personally responsible for lockdown.

@Nam095

Pregnant women and also breastfeeding mothers have been advised against the vaccine. I'm currently pregnant baby is due in the summer and I plan on breastfeeding my child as well so looks like I won't be getting the vaccine until 2022. So if vaccine passports become a thing I guess I'll be stuck indoors still until then

I thought they said it was assumed safe for breastfeeding mothers ? I am still feeding and not stopping and will be having my vaccine ASAP.

Also I see vaccine passports being compulsory unless they exclude children if there aren't going to be jabs for them?

I know some 50/60s are probably still working, I know there will be exceptions but generally 60 isn't working age.

60 is below pensionable age, it's a perfectly normal age to be working. I might as well say that it's not generally working age for women in their 20-30s because some of them will be on maternity leave or be a SAHM.

I work in a hospital and lots of retired staff have come back to work to help during the pandemic
Providing an essential service - not knitting and gardening

Going on holiday and for meals out etc is not essential at all, yes it's nice but everyone's time will come for the vaccine

Just think for a minute what you're saying

@MonroeNotManson

Are you related to Pam OP?

Just snorted my tea out 😂

Yabu. It's not exactly been a bundle of laughs for those of us who have priority for the vaccine. When people were enjoying eat out to help out and socially distanced days out in the summer I was stuck at home with the person I am caring for. I haven't been anywhere apart from the hospital, Dr surgery and a couple of very short walks since March 2020.

@ThroughThickAndThin01

60 isn’t working age . What affluent circles do you swan about in OP?

But carry on with your “It’s not faaaaiiiiiirrrrr wah”

Lol have you looked to see how old you’ll be when you retire?

That question was to the op, not you through thick - I’ve had beer.

I think YABVU OP, and I say this as someone who is in her twenties and just got her first dose of the vaccine and will get the next and last one in 3 weeks.

Being vaccinated changes nothing. I do feel young people have sacrificed a lot (one of my friends died a few months ago, also in their twenties and it’s really shit knowing that was their last year of life) but I cannot imagine reaching old age and not being allowed to see anyone or risking death. Covid has been a pain in the butt but I have never been at risk for it (or at least not more at risk than any other average 20 something years old) knowing you are in old age and either can’t see people or have to pick between seeing people and risking death or being isolated and waiting for death is heart breaking.

I have lost 4 elderly relatives this year. Some in their mid to late 90’s, they died alone, without seeing anyone and they didn’t even get a proper funeral. Can you imagine living almost a century, going through war for your country and having almost 100 years worth of memories attached to people and places and dying alone away from it all and having a young person begrudging you the opportunity to see people.

I am outraged that I have been eligible for the vaccine as a 25 non-healthcare worker with no high-risk conditions when my disable/ill and 65yo grandma is ineligible.

Me having the vaccine also doesn’t mean I can’t spread it. It means I am less likely to get sick from it. So I am not going to go off partying maskless like Covid is over in 2 weeks time when I get my second dose. I will go home and do what I have been doing all along, aka acknowledge the fact that I am lucky, and do my part in not spreading it further to the people who have YET to be vaccinated.

Yes I miss partying, socializing and being young and carefree but I have YEARS to make up for it. I would swap my take of the vaccine for my grandma in a minute. I am so aware of the fact that she has less time than me (though at 65 she is definitely not knitting and pottering about and is very active indeed so nowhere near death’s door.) in fact I would swap my dose with all of the people I care about who are higher risk than me because I want them protected more than I care about going back to my old life or hitting the bars (though it does sound nice!)

I am also in favor of international vaccination passport. We are in this shitshow because people traveled recklessly through the pandemic. The fact that many people continued to go to Africa and or Asia/Mexico as soon as borders reopen despite the pandemic and purposefully went to countries where social distancing wasn’t strict is telling in how much people care about the countries they visit.

I personally don’t think people who refuse to get vaccinated or would not consent to testing should be allowed on a plane, potentially spreading it to others especially people who might not be able to get the vaccine but might die from the disease and to countries who have no resources to deal with the pandemic but will take the risk of their population getting infected for the sake of tourism.

@Linning

I think YABVU OP, and I say this as someone who is in her twenties and just got her first dose of the vaccine and will get the next and last one in 3 weeks.

Being vaccinated changes nothing. I do feel young people have sacrificed a lot (one of my friends died a few months ago, also in their twenties and it’s really shit knowing that was their last year of life) but I cannot imagine reaching old age and not being allowed to see anyone or risking death. Covid has been a pain in the butt but I have never been at risk for it (or at least not more at risk than any other average 20 something years old) knowing you are in old age and either can’t see people or have to pick between seeing people and risking death or being isolated and waiting for death is heart breaking.

I have lost 4 elderly relatives this year. Some in their mid to late 90’s, they died alone, without seeing anyone and they didn’t even get a proper funeral. Can you imagine living almost a century, going through war for your country and having almost 100 years worth of memories attached to people and places and dying alone away from it all and having a young person begrudging you the opportunity to see people.

I am outraged that I have been eligible for the vaccine as a 25 non-healthcare worker with no high-risk conditions when my disable/ill and 65yo grandma is ineligible.

Me having the vaccine also doesn’t mean I can’t spread it. It means I am less likely to get sick from it. So I am not going to go off partying maskless like Covid is over in 2 weeks time when I get my second dose. I will go home and do what I have been doing all along, aka acknowledge the fact that I am lucky, and do my part in not spreading it further to the people who have YET to be vaccinated.

Yes I miss partying, socializing and being young and carefree but I have YEARS to make up for it. I would swap my take of the vaccine for my grandma in a minute. I am so aware of the fact that she has less time than me (though at 65 she is definitely not knitting and pottering about and is very active indeed so nowhere near death’s door.) in fact I would swap my dose with all of the people I care about who are higher risk than me because I want them protected more than I care about going back to my old life or hitting the bars (though it does sound nice!)

I am also in favor of international vaccination passport. We are in this shitshow because people traveled recklessly through the pandemic. The fact that many people continued to go to Africa and or Asia/Mexico as soon as borders reopen despite the pandemic and purposefully went to countries where social distancing wasn’t strict is telling in how much people care about the countries they visit.

I personally don’t think people who refuse to get vaccinated or would not consent to testing should be allowed on a plane, potentially spreading it to others especially people who might not be able to get the vaccine but might die from the disease and to countries who have no resources to deal with the pandemic but will take the risk of their population getting infected for the sake of tourism.

Why is your grandma not eligible?

Recent research suggests that there is evidence that the vaccination does lower transmission.

I agree about those who went on holiday over Christmas or in the recent lockdown. I also agree about those who refuse to get the vaccination. But we are in a different place now with vaccinations and those most vulnerable are mainly covered by the vaccination now. I think people want to manage their own risk now and decide for themselves without being told anymore. The vulnerable are mostly protected now so let them.

I think there needs to be some restrictions on travel like getting a covid test before you travel there and back and better controls over making people who test positive self isolate at a hotel at their own expense- like they are doing now. Probably not being able to visit those red countries that are higher risk for new strains or who's vaccination programmes are in very early days or haven't started yet. Several months too late IMO.

But telling the unvaccinated, who are very low risk and can manage their own risk, and are now low risk of effecting those who are vaccinated that they can't visit a cinema, arena, pub or travel within the uk or abroad.

My grandma lives in France and they don’t do under 70yo there.

There is evidence of it reducing transmission but none about stopping it, we also don’t know how long the vaccine provide protection for, it could be a life time or it could be 6 months. We just don’t know enough yet.

Also currently young people are allowed to attend and book holidays if they want to. You are not being shut out of the pubs or movies while grandmas get a pass to go. People who are vaccinated are doing those things more BECAUSE they know they have slightly more protection and are at less risk but nobody is stopping you from booking your own holidays.

People who are vaccinated currently have the same rights and restrictions as others.

Now if your local pub somehow wants to implement a vaccinated people only or if an airline chose to only get vaccinated people on it is their choice. Those are private businesses who can serve and cater for whoever they want and can refuse service if they think certain customers are a risk they are not willing to take on, as they might want to protect their staff. What businesses chose to do with their business and how they chose to run it, as nothing to do with sacrificing young people. It’s about businesses making business decisions (if I had a business and I could fill it up and keep it open with vaccinated people vs open it to all but might have to close every two weeks because someone tested positive and now the whole staff needs to isolate, I know what I would pick.)

Yes it would be nice if we could all go back to normal irrelevant of age or vaccination but the fact that you think you are more entitled to go back to normal because you are younger and somehow felt you gave up on more than older people is what’s problematic.

I think our grandparents/great-grandparents who had to raise kids through war or lived in conditions much more drastic than ours without all the technology we have to keep busy and entertain themselves and their kids have had it worse than us and already sacrificed their youth so we didn’t have to. I don’t think it’s too much to ask us to do the same for them now and sit at home and binge-watch our favorite Netflix show or go out for a walk to the beach or around our neighborhood while we work from our laptop and catch up with friends over zoom or sit together 6ft apart in a park (so hardly asking us to sacrifice our lives really).

Yes it sucks for young people and kids to be at home and lack socialization but it sucks more to have to burry grandma or whoever else because we couldn’t wait to get back to the partying or found watching a movie at the cinema more compelling than at home or needed to drink our beer indoors shoulders to shoulders with others to feel good instead of at the park in a socially distanced environment as it’s just “not the same”.

Your feelings of annoyance at having missed out on things and potentially continuing to miss out on things are totally valid but you are acting like young people have been asked to give up their first born. A lot of the things you are missing can be done or recreated in a way that is safe but still very much enjoyable if you do it right. So not sure why you think your need/will to have things exactly the same as before should trump safety and common sense.

My grandma lives in France and they don’t do under 70yo there.

That's not right.

Several people I know in the 50-60yr age group have had their 1st vaccinations atthe local pharmacy this week.

It has been the case that the AZ vaccine is not recommended for over 65s in France, but I think that has been reversed now.

They are also using any left overs for locals who can get down there quickly as my friend got their remaning dose yesterday after a quick phone call.

@SparkysMagicPiano

My grandma lives in France and they don’t do under 70yo there.

That's not right.

Several people I know in the 50-60yr age group have had their 1st vaccinations atthe local pharmacy this week.

It has been the case that the AZ vaccine is not recommended for over 65s in France, but I think that has been reversed now.

They are also using any left overs for locals who can get down there quickly as my friend got their remaning dose yesterday after a quick phone call.

Well I don’t know the ins and out as I am not currently in France but last time we chatted (a week ago) she couldn’t access the vaccine. It’s good if they are lowering the age but I assume they are still prioritizing older people. My grandma is also not hyper tech focus/savy so I have no idea of how able she has been to keep up to date with the ever changing vaccine rules, but I am moving back to France in 3 weeks time so will focus on getting her the vaccine if possible. Though I will share your information with her now, so thank you for sharing!

But telling the unvaccinated, who are very low risk and can manage their own risk, and are now low risk of effecting those who are vaccinated that they can't visit a cinema, arena, pub or travel within the uk or abroad.

But the issue is that the unvaccinated wouldn’t just be managing their own risk. They’d be asking to manage the risk of businesses and workers in those businesses and other patrons in those businesses, as well as manage the risk of the whole country if we continued with high transmission enabling new variants to emerge.

Covid is unfortunately not a solo game.

Let's say they delay the reopening of the tourist industry till September when everyone is vaccinated. Can't you just imagine the surge in demand and the price hikes?
You still might not get your holiday op, or if you do then you'll have to pay a huge price for it - oh I forgot that won't be a problem for you as you live in circles where everyone knits and gardens at age 60, and thus might be well off enough to afford it, or have those wealthy relatives sub you.

But telling the unvaccinated, who are very low risk and can manage their own risk, and are now low risk of effecting those who are vaccinated that they can't visit a cinema, arena, pub or travel within the uk or abroad.

All the articles I've seen where this is discussed says that a negative test can be used in place of a vaccination proof.
So no one is discriminated against.

Personally I can't see the issue with an either or scenario, if it means things can open up a bit earlier. It also means the most vulnerable in society - those who are vulnerable but cannot have the vaccine - aren't having to be kept hidden away even longer.

I talked to dd about this. She's 18y so will be the back of the queue for vaccines. She is hoping to go to festivals this,summer, at least one was postponed from last summer. I mentioned the vaccine/negative test thing and she just shrugged. Taking a test was not an issue or a barrier and she'd do it, if not been vaccinated by August. Her friends are the same. The thought of it doesn't bother them at all - mind they are all students so have had to have tests to come home, go back, etc,

I am outraged that I have been eligible for the vaccine as a 25 non-healthcare worker with no high-risk conditions when my disable/ill and 65yo grandma is ineligible.

How did you get the vaccine then?

I am CV but still haven't had it, it could be another two months before I am called which is frustrating because I don't have the choice to work from home, I have to go in.

Jesus christ. None of this is fair! For anyone! I'm pretty sure viruses don't have a concept of fair. It's been tough for everyone one way or another. We just have to push through and hang on till its over

@Linning

I don't know if it is the same everywhere in France, but I registered myself at a local pharmacy and they will call with an appointment. OH tried to register himself but they said that at 66 he is too old! Not sure if this will now change as AZ is deemed OK for the over 65s.

I agree that the "how to get a vaccine" message is not really disseminated very clearly here in France.

You might find some useful info here, I would ignore the bit where it says 50-64 with other issues as that is clearly not the case where we are.

www.sante.fr/cf/centres-vaccination-covid.html?fbclid=IwAR2EP8gwuhnm_MapW7DL4yrMqppSwVU8sfV8K4jZkJ728g9m_9Xyho064-U

Sorry for slightly derailing the thread!

@haggisandmarsba

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

Try booking through here, don't wait to be called.

So not sure why you think your need/will to have things exactly the same as before should trump safety and common sense.

This exactly. You are being asked to comply with perfectly reasonable public health measures. Your view of the risks is skewed by your desire to simply have what you want, which makes you seem very self-centered and entitled.

People are vulnerable at any age. I've lost patients in their early 30's with no comorbidities. We need actual, stable herd immunity before what you want is possible.

[quote Blockedoff]@haggisandmarsba

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

Try booking through here, don't wait to be called. [/quote]
Group 6 can't book through the national site. Group 6 are being organised via their GPs and have to wait for them to call you for it.

Unfortunately the system doesn't seem to have been designed well enough to have a system of sending all flagged group 6 people to the central site 🤷‍♀️

I know some 50/60s are probably still working, I know there will be exceptions but generally 60 isn't working age.

60 is a working age. Most are working. You do know what the retirement age is now?