To think that vaccination cards are very unfair.

[studychick81]

I can see why they are needed but I think it's very unfair how they are going to be used. I am 39 and have no health issues. I am not sure when I will get the vaccination as I ve read they haven't even decided groups beyond group 9. So, that means it could be ages before I get any normality back in my life like going to restaurants, pubs, concerts and holidays. I am unsure if I should book a holiday in August as I don't know if I will be vaccinated by then.

I am feel quite cross about this and my parents and friends parents (70+) are booking holidays and cruises etc and will get their lives back so much quicker than I will. Yet IMO my age group and below are the ones that have probably made the greatest sacrifices, juggling home schooling, work and studying, financial worries. Everyone I know in the 60+ category have spent their days gardening, knitting and being bored but with little stress and sacrifice, yet they will be the first to get their lives back.

Not only it is likely my age group and below will feel the lasting effects most from this and will likely pay the most for this with tax increases etc, we will be the last to get the benefits of coming out of lockdown. I don't think they should insist on vaccination cards until everyone is vaccinated.

@VinylDetective

Would the same have been done in the reverse situation I wonder? Locking down for children and young people? Would the older generation accepted it and have the same view they have now? I think not

I think you’re completely wrong, I’m pretty sure we would. Anyway it’s time the idea that young people locked down for the benefit of older generations is put to bed. We all locked down to slow down the spread of the virus and minimise demand on the NHS.

The most vulnerable have given up the most, regardless of age. There are people in care homes who haven’t seen their families for over a year, shielding people who have barely left the house. They’re the ones I feel sorry for, not someone who’s catastrophising about “losing a year” in their 20s.

Have they? I think those in poverty and vulnerable children and women who live in a home that isn't safe have given up the most. I think about those children and women everyday, calls to domestic abuse helplines have gone through the roof. I work with children and so in previous jobs can imagine those children who are probably in that situation. Those who were on the breadline but now are living in poverty. Those who have killed themselves over this. To me that is much worse than those who haven't seen their families for a year or haven't been out.

Oh and plus my dc who now has mental health problems and who is seeing a therapist we are that worried about him. Don't underestimate the toll this has taken on people's mental health. I am sure there are many others in that situation.

Would the same have been done in the reverse situation I wonder? Locking down for children and young people? Would the older generation accepted it and have the same view they have now? I think not.

You don't seem to have understood the rationale for lockdown. The most vulnerable groups were asked to shield because they were most likely to need hospital care if they got CV. Their compliance was a combination of self preservation and a sense of responsibility. The rest of us faced restrictions to control the spread and reduce pressure on the NHS.

If the most vulnerable people had been younger age groups (as it as with Spanish flu) we would still have had restrictions. It would have been essential to prevent significant loss of life in the working age population. I"m neither old nor young but I accept I have a responsibility to do my best to avoid needing NHS services at the moment and would feel the same regardless of which age group was most susceptible to severe illness from Covid. Lockdown is a control strategy to ensure emergency care is possible for those who need it, it's not a punishment.

@QueenoftheAir

She is saying that if bars/restaurants/flights are available, they should be available to everyone, whether or not they had the vaccine, until everyone has been offered it and then vaccine passports would be more acceptable.

Thing is, as someone of an age which is a risk, and with underlying conditions which put me at moderate risk (clinically vulnerable), if everything just opens up to all & sundry, I am at risk.

The OP sounds selfish and whiny. I think I got over wailing "It's not faaaaaair!" when I was about 10.

That's exactly what we did last summer with eat out to help out. This time there's less risk as we have the vaccination.

I’m not getting into competitive misery. The last year’s been shit for all of us.

[quote Blockedoff]@Notadramallama OP may have apologised for saying that 60 year olds were retired, however she was extremely derogatory about them "just gardening and knitting", how rude is that?

She's cross with her parents for booking a holiday, even though they had to shield. How can she honestly be cross at her parents going on holiday?

She also has family abroad that she needs to "hug", but only wants to do that in the summer holidays, October or Christmas are too cold for that type of thing.

She can think what she likes but the rules on passports will be decided and be as cross as she likes, but it's not going to change a thing.

And for clarity, I've not had my vaccine, not due it yet, I don't knit but I do garden!

[/quote]
Ps. My parents haven't booked a holiday, my DF is CV and they are being very careful. I have seen him through a window this past year.

There needs to be a blanket rule for all, otherwise it's discriminatory and I thought that was something we didn't tolerate here.

It's only discriminatory if it's the protected characteristics of race, sex, religion, etc. Unless non vaccinated are predominantly from a protected characteristic group, there is no discrimination in law.

Would the same have been done in the reverse situation I wonder? Locking down for children and young people? Would the older generation accepted it and have the same view they have now? I think not.

Goodness me you must know some really dreadful older people to think that.

My parents and my in laws have often expressed how relieved and grateful they are that Covid’s particular peculiarity is that it largely leaves children unscathed. They - and some of our much older relations - have also said that they don’t like the idea of lockdown and restrictions to save the elderly and they’d do it much more willingly if it was children who needed protecting. They would be more willing to take the risk just for themselves - but get the community risk factor. I’m lucky in that my parents are in Australia so while I’ve not been able to see them and my own country won’t let me in without a fight, I haven’t had to worry about them.

My in laws are a different story. They’re here, and they’re not in great health. I know it hurts them to have only seen our kids once in a year. But I know without a doubt they would have been more likely to stay at home and follow restrictions for their grandkids’ benefit than they were to follow their own shielding instruction (STOP NIPPING IN TO SAINSBURYS MIL.)

l@studychick81

Ps. My parents haven't booked a holiday, my DF is CV and they are being very careful. I have seen him through a window this past year.

So this is a quote from your OP

I am feel quite cross about this and my parents and friends parents (70+) are booking holidays and cruises etc and will get their lives back so much quicker than I will.

Which one is the truth?

@Kazzyhoward

There needs to be a blanket rule for all, otherwise it's discriminatory and I thought that was something we didn't tolerate here.

It's only discriminatory if it's the protected characteristics of race, sex, religion, etc. Unless non vaccinated are predominantly from a protected characteristic group, there is no discrimination in law.

Age is a protected characteristic.

Would the same have been done in the reverse situation I wonder? Locking down for children and young people? Would the older generation accepted it and have the same view they have now? I think not.

@studychick81 you've got a really twisted view on the older generation!

They just garden and knit
60 year olds don't work

And now they would've risked children's lives if they were the vulnerable ones?

You really think very poorly of the older generation are

Give it a rest. It's just a few more months and I'm sure you can cope. I'd like to have my vaccine so I can spend time with my terminally ill brother OP, but yes you so desperately need to go on holiday that you can't wait a bit longer. Why not take a minute to count your blessings instead of whingeing about how unfair life is.

I'm very concerned about vaccine passports and also very concerned that the government are rather neglecting younger people.

I don't have any time for generalisations on here about older people themselves, many work etc. But I still think it is true the government is shafting children and young people, and this is being done intentionally.

Those of us stuck in the middle age-wise are getting pulled in both directions!

Shame the government didn't handle covid more effectively,then we wouldn't have so much post-covid shit to deal with

@1Morewineplease

My husband was given a card when he had his first jab. That's probably all you'll need.

I doubt it. To be of any use it'll need to be on photo ID surely?

I know some 50/60s are probably still working, I know there will be exceptions but generally 60 isn't working age.

Are you in the U.K.? I'm laughing out loud! Of course the majority of people in their 50s and early 60s are still working. Are we so invisible to you? And of course 60 is working age - people born in 1961 can't draw their pension until they're 66.
I started with some sympathy for your view, it doesn't feel like we're all in it together if boomers can wave goodbye to millennials at they jet off but I just don't think you are seeing the full picture.

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants I got the yellow fever jab 10 years ago and no photo Id In vaccination passport I was provided

[quote EasterIssland]@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants I got the yellow fever jab 10 years ago and no photo Id In vaccination passport I was provided[/quote]
This is niche though so little value in setting up a business selling fake certs for yellow fever.

If the government make the vaccine passport necessary for pubs etc there will soon be a black market.

You can already by fake test certificates for booking flights.

I love how we've seamlessly going from people complaining that they might be forced to have a vaccine to people complaining about not having got the vaccine! Be grateful we have vaccines that work, and be damn grateful this doesn't kill young people- life would be so much worse if kids were higher risk.

Locking down for children and young people?

We all did exactly that when children returned to school in the autumn. Adult places of entertainment, pubs, galleries, theatres etc remained closed, and we all remained under tiered restrictions.

Because children were at school, the rest of us retained restrictions to try to contain the spread of the infection beyond school groups/bubbles.

We all did that for children, and will be doing it again when they return to school in March.

And that is absolutely the right thing. I have no problem remaining in lockdown so children can go back to school.

I haven't seen my family, who live outside the UK, since December 2019, because of the pandemic.
Like many others I have been juggling WFH with homeschooling.
I am about your age OP and I don't know when I will see my parents again, when I will meet my new niece.
It's tough.
But I think you are wrong.
Firstly, because we don't know yet that there will be such cards.
Secondly, the way you talk about the over 60's is awful.
Like someone has said, you and I have the time to travel in the next few decades.
And many people that age do a great deal more than sitting and knitting.

@QueenoftheAir

Locking down for children and young people?

We all did exactly that when children returned to school in the autumn. Adult places of entertainment, pubs, galleries, theatres etc remained closed, and we all remained under tiered restrictions.

Because children were at school, the rest of us retained restrictions to try to contain the spread of the infection beyond school groups/bubbles.

We all did that for children, and will be doing it again when they return to school in March.

And that is absolutely the right thing. I have no problem remaining in lockdown so children can go back to school.

Apart from the mini lock down those places were open. Theatres are difficult because of the conditions but there were performances in the autumn term. They shut because the government allowed coronavirus to get out of control again..

Amazing how young healthy posters assume they are fully immune to getting very poorly it dying from it!

Only of my DS friend went on and on about how lockdown was aware of time and that young people should be free to carry in as normal. He was selfish and annoying.

Inevitably, he caught it early December. He was ill as with the flu but didn't need to go to hospital. He recovered and thought he was ok, but long covid has left him with serious memory issues and headaches. These are so bad, he hasn't been able to return to work.

He has now totally changed his tune about it. So many 'it couldn't happen to me and I don't care about the others!

[quote EasterIssland]@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants I got the yellow fever jab 10 years ago and no photo Id In vaccination passport I was provided[/quote]
It's not the same thing at all.

PracticingPerson explained it.

Apart from the mini lock down those places were open. Theatres are difficult because of the conditions but there were performances in the autumn term. They shut because the government allowed coronavirus to get out of control again..

They were open but with huge restrictions on capacity. If a vaccine certificate enabled those sorts of places to open fully sooner and try to claw back what they’ve lost, I’d be a dick to fight it just because I wasn’t a beneficiary.

I know some 50/60s are probably still working, I know there will be exceptions but generally 60 isn't working age.

In the uk people can't claim their pension until they are in the mid 60s. There are a lot of over 60s who are working full time.
I have colleagues who are LSAs who are working FT in their 60s.
Many of our lunch time supervisors are over 60. One is in her 80s - she worked throughout as it happened, through choice and wouldn't be discouraged. Fortunately she'd now vaccinated.

To be fair working at over 80 is unusual, but working over 60 definitely isn't. This is even more the case in lower paid jobs.