Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

the lack of sympathy for 'Karens' is the fact they are privileged by virtue of being white, middle class etc, and a lot of them DO have an entitled attitude

As many people on this thread have tried to point out again and again, it's because women in possession of an opinion are a dangerous thing, and particularly if they are over 45. How very dare they. Nothing to do with being entitled, even if they are.

Actually maybe we are indeed as dangerous as some on this thread have suggested

Check your privilege is just the latest way of telling women that they're not allowed to want their own rights until everyone else in the world has got theirs.

Usually trotted out by someone white and middle class

That’s funny because I’m neither. No one said you shouldn’t want better rights, we all do but as people have brought up the term ‘intersectionality’ do you even know what that is?? The fact non white women are largely excluded from a lot of feminism by you guessed it middle aged white women is a big issue. Obviously not all Karens are the same but the reason it’s been given an all-inclusive name is because that personality type exists & has existed for a long time. Like in the Wikipedia article someone linked up the thread, there used to be Barbecue Becky, Cornerstone Caroline & Permit Patty & way before that it was Miss Ann.

“Miss Ann was a Jim Crow-era "cheeky, in-group shorthand amongst Black people" for white people who used their privilege as a weapon.”

So to pretend you don’t understand why race keeps getting brought into it, it’s because it literally is at the heart of the issue

How is this a white, middle class, privileged woman demanding to speak to the a manger ?
White yes but otherwise just another meme to degrade and put down a middle aged woman who is overweight and therefore is fair game to be laughter at and put in her place.

The fact that there is even a debate about karen shows white female privilege. I am not saying that it's right to use karen as insult. But to deny the debate around it and only put down to misogyny is a lie.

I think generally Karens just can't take criticism. They can't accept that they are privileged and entitled because they just don't see it. That's what I understand a Karen to be. Someone who is always right, everything they do is right, they are entitled to this and that, they've had the hardest run etc.

Yes we should call out things for what they are, but using a term like Karen is just easier. It's something the internet picked up on and has become common language, because people are sick of privileged white women complaining about trivial matters.

people are sick of privileged white women complaining about trivial matters.

Personally I'm sick of violent dangerous men raping, assaulting and harassing their way through the world. But have a wee think about why those men don't get an insult for their "type". Have a think about why it's women and trivial matters.

The fact that there is even a debate about karen shows white female privilege. I am not saying that it's right to use karen as insult. But to deny the debate around it and only put down to misogyny is a lie.

Yepp

I think generally Karens just can't take criticism. They can't accept that they are privileged and entitled because they just don't see it. That's what I understand a Karen to be. Someone who is always right, everything they do is right, they are entitled to this and that, they've had the hardest run etc.

Yes we should call out things for what they are, but using a term like Karen is just easier. It's something the internet picked up on and has become common language, because people are sick of privileged white women complaining about trivial matters.

Very much this too

I have foolishly stepped over to tiktok and put Karen in the search. Could only stomach half a dozen videos - all of very, very shouty women, filmed without permission I would assume, and without any preamble they look totally unreasonable. The ages ranged from early 40s to a lady who looked around 70. The filmers and the filmed were all white. None of the videos involved any form of racist incident.
Hopefully this will not have totally ruined my tiktok experience and I can see happy families dancing once more

One of the nicest women I know is called Karen.
She's married to an incel like man though, poor thing.

"because people are sick of privileged white women complaining about trivial matters."

Which things are these? Just so we know what we're allowed to care about.

Gosh, acting like white middle aged women are some all powerful evil force.

The 1700s called- they want their scapegoating back.

@Proudboomer she has white privilege.

She is complaining about her 'problems' and voicing her 'opinions' which are trivial and ill informed. But people listen to her opinions because she is white.

Similar to 'first world problems'.

Wow Chocolatebrownie. You've said a lot of things I've disagreed with on this thread but your last post is poison. Imagine being so happy to perpetuate stereotypes, you're positively embracing them.

@Millenialcunt I have read a LOT about intersectionality. I have also seen first hand how quickly people are able to change their instinctive revulsion and shame (yes from a position of privilege) at racism to a "racism is someone elses problem". Which is exactly whats happening at the moment with a lot of people who are white but NOT middle aged women. Because thats the easiest thing.

As far as white feminism, yes thats a huge issue. Its connected in my mind to the idea that if a woman does something that benefits themselves its feminist/empowering even if it fucks a whole load of other women over in the process. In my mind if you use your advantages (whether that is race, age, beauty, wealth) to benefit yourself while fucking a load of other people (inc.women) over you are Not a feminist. The Karen meme (as it is used now) is not anti-racist though. You yourself said that so I dont know why you are still defending it.

BuzzFeed is bad for this too. Constant "Karen" and "basic white bitch" and articles about "typical things white people do". Spin this round and replace it with "black" and there is hell to pay.

It's fucking horrific.

[quote Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie]@Proudboomer she has white privilege.

She is complaining about her 'problems' and voicing her 'opinions' which are trivial and ill informed. But people listen to her opinions because she is white.

Similar to 'first world problems'.[/quote]
What the actual fuck you have taken that from a photo of an overweight woman running? Don't know whether to be angry with you or worried for you.

The only thing I found useful/interesting on tiktok was a vid of someone showing now to get a loo sparkly clean using pink stuff loo cleaner and a foam spray.

[quote Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie]@Proudboomer she has white privilege.

She is complaining about her 'problems' and voicing her 'opinions' which are trivial and ill informed. But people listen to her opinions because she is white.

Similar to 'first world problems'.[/quote]
You think people listen to white women?

Hahahahahahahaha.

Ok then.

I'm white and plenty have people have blamed me for the rape i experienced as a child. But hey I'm white, I don't experience discrimination, only privilege and thank god I wasn't black ey?

You're vile

Racism is a separate issue to someone having a hissy fit. Entitled behaviour isn't linked to skin colour or age and it is actually quite offensive to consider the two things are related.

But that is the point, surely, @LadyWithTheBraid - it is not just hissy fits, it is any time a woman of a certain age doesnt want to put up with crap.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz I'll in future use knob when someone's behaviour is unacceptable. Or maybe twat. Mix things up a bit. How about arsehole - nicely gender neutral?

@Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie

I think generally Karens just can't take criticism. They can't accept that they are privileged and entitled because they just don't see it. That's what I understand a Karen to be. Someone who is always right, everything they do is right, they are entitled to this and that, they've had the hardest run etc.

Yes we should call out things for what they are, but using a term like Karen is just easier. It's something the internet picked up on and has become common language, because people are sick of privileged white women complaining about trivial matters.

People who post stuff like this are pretty much invariably highly privileged themselves.

I've spend 20+ years working with deprived communities - refugees, the homeless, people with addictions. None of this wank is about empowering them. If it were, you would be fighting to overcome all the disadvantages they face - including misogyny in the case of women. None of it is about listening to them.

It's a bunch of highly privileged middle class people, getting a thrill out of denouncing other middle class people for being middle class. It does nothing to help anyone. It's just a cheap thrill for the self-righteous.

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown I'm not talking about that specific woman, I'm talking about the Karen meme. Ie: a 'Karen' is a person who complains about ...

I'm explaining what I understand the meme to mean.

Spin this round and replace it with "black" and there is hell to pay.

No, not really there's a whole history of the subjugation of Black people - not sure if you've ever heard of colonisation or slavery... small / obscure part of history.... so a few Buzzfeed artcles saying "typical things white people do lol" isn't quite the same. Hmmmm very bizarre comparison. In fact insanely wild comparison but here we are.

Oh and a mixed race man raped me as a child - but I'm probably just a Karen looking to get a black man into trouble, right?

This shit makes me furious. Vent your hatred for women where someone gives a shit. Maybe the Reddit incel forums?

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows I'm talking about a MEME. It's not personally directed at any particular person. I thought this thread was about unpacking the Karen meme.

No need to attack me personally.

But people listen to her opinions because she is white.

Yeah, no one listens to middle aged women. They'll listen to you while you're at the fuckable age, but after that forget it. Honestly, middle age is going to hit some of you like a ton of bricks.

And the whole Karen insult is about the very opposite of listening to women. It's about shutting them up. You only have to look at how pervasive it is to see just how invested society is in shutting up women of a certain age.

I never knew my pixels on a screen gave an indication of my skin tone but hey if you think taking the piss out of a fat middle aged woman has anything to do with fighting white privilege then I am sure racism will cease to exist pretty soon as it seems that is the only demographic that it is still acceptable to insult.