Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

[GCAcademic]

Karen isn't an insult for EVERY middle aged woman. It's an insult given to a woman that displays very specific horrible behaviour.

Except it is increasingly used to describe middle-aged woman in general.

Because how dare women be past their sell-by date and have any self-confidence.

The "Karen" insult is just the latest manifestation of dislike for middle aged women. The hatred that Mary Beard gets, for example, not just from trolls on the internet, but from leftie junior academics on Twitter is disgusting. The woke are some of the most misogynistic and ageist people out there.

[Helmetbymidnight]

Tbh it makes people look like more of a Karen when they get so outraged over it.

not at all outraged over it. I've just noticed the dim-wits who use it are misogynistic cunts.

Ooh how very 'Karen' of me.

[Chocolatechocolatechoate]

@helmetbymidnight

Lovely 😂 you clearly are very bothered by it if it gets you to the point of swearing at people wether it be over the internet or not. I wonder if you'd speak to people like that in the real world for having an opinion that is different to yours?

[GCAcademic]

It's funny how modern "activism" is all based around hating specific groups of people isn't it? What a progressive culture we inhabit. I say "activism" but what it unusually entails is sitting on your arse, insulting people on social media, and then patting yourself on the back for being "progressive".

[Helmetbymidnight]

Oh I see calling middle-aged women Karen is good but swearing is bad.



As I said, dim-wits.

[CoffeeBerry]

Yep. Dim wits

[Pukkatea]

It is very unfortunate that it is associated with a particular name, but the original behaviour it was intended for absolutely needed to be called out. Working in retail back in the day was horrendous due to those sorts of people. I see it most predominantly on social media now being used for those videos of women shouting at black people to show them proof they have a right to exist in their area.

[Beamur]

Whatever the origins, it's become a lazy, ageist, sexist trope.
Using derogatory names to belittle a group or class of people is nothing new. It's an old old tactic to remove the validity of any argument/point/value that group might have to make. Makes the user of the term feel a bit superior or more enlightened.
If you find yourself using this maybe you should have a little think on and realise it's not funny and maybe says something about you which isn't that nice either.

[Chocolatechocolatechoate]

@Helmetbymidnight

Oh my you've thrown an insult at me! I'd better claim discrimination based on my age or gender! 😮

[TopTabby]

So called 'woke' young people shouting at anyone who has an opinion different to theirs.
The same people hating others just for their age & the fact they might own a house, or dare to complain about poor service.
It's all hate but hey #bekind.
Nothing would get me on Tik Tok, surprised anyone in their 40s feels the need & that's not ageist, just common sense.

[VladmirsPoutine]

Oh god here we go again. Mumsnetters preaching about how the term Karen is akin the n-word. Karen is a useful term to describe a certain kind of behaviour by a certain kind of woman. Here we go...

[Chocolatechocolatechoate]

@Pukkatea

With you 100%

[7Days]

You just here for the scrap chocolate ?

[VladmirsPoutine]

And the absolute irony of using the word 'woke' in the manner that you did in your OP... honestly couldn't make this shit up!!

[NuniaBeeswax]

I hope people outraged over being called "Karens" have never used names like Sharon or Tracy to describe stereotypical single mothers on benefits, for example.

[AgeLikeWine]

This is yet another reason why I do not use or engage with social media.

[thecatsthecats]

[quote BobbinThreadbare123]@Chocolatechocolatechoate if you were saying that 5 years ago, I would be in agreement with you. I reckon the 'definition' has expanded though. It's no longer just used for ribbing over-enthusiastic restaurant-complainers.[/quote]
I don't disagree that the use of it is different between different people, but you also can't claim that everyone is using it in the same way.

To be honest, five years ago it was most frequently Carol in tweets I saw, and they were generally by women in service positions who were being abused by rich and entitled people.

The roots, in my opinion, were far more rooted in wealth inequality - especially American wealth inequality - than in sexism. But it's incorrect to say that the use evolves at the same rate for everyone. Literally, if a species of fish is split between two ponds, the evolution can diverge - the same principle applies to language.

(I do find it very interesting that social media is such a disruptor of norms in that it's policed by the young - not that I agree with it. But previously the youth could attend meetings and protest etc, but they weren't able to impose their ideologies on their elders - and it works because marketers and algorithms prioritise a "good woke platform".)

[CoffeeBerry]

Who on the thread has said it's akin to the N word Vladimir?

[LucilleBluth]

It’s all so very odd to me.

I used to love sitting with my mum and her friends while they were having a chat and a drink. I loved talking to my grandad about his childhood. Where has this boomer/GenX/Millennial crap come from.

A few years ago I did a course and met a woman in her late 60s who was/is a bloody inspiration to me. We are still in touch and she’s just retired to what I can only describe as a hippy old lady commune. When did the young become like this.

I have two teenage boys and they’ve not like this, they can be pains in the arses but I don’t see rage in them.

[NuniaBeeswax]

"When did the young become like this."

"“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

― Socrates"

[Chocolatechocolatechoate]

There is the issue in that last comment. All young people being painted in the same negative light. If we're going to be spoken about like that (which btw I have heard since childhood) is it any wonder that they start making comments back?
Millennials are constantly being name called and yet older generation play the victim for being called Karen. It's just ridiculous

[LucilleBluth]

I’m interested in the origins. Has it, as a pp stated always been this way or is it just in our faces now because of social media. In my opinion it is sexist and ageist no matter how people try to defend it.

To the poster who asked why is a 40 year old on TikTok. My friend sent me various videos of a man in blonde wig with a Mancunian accent and told me that she misses me, make of that what you will 😀.

[7Days]

@Chocolatechocolatechoate

There is the issue in that last comment. All young people being painted in the same negative light. If we're going to be spoken about like that (which btw I have heard since childhood) is it any wonder that they start making comments back?
Millennials are constantly being name called and yet older generation play the victim for being called Karen. It's just ridiculous

That's the danger with sweeping generalisations though.
I've personally never moaned about Millenials (in fact I just squeak through into that bracket), or black people, or men. But it gets my back up when other people moan about my unchangeable characteristics.
It easily becomes a vicious circle.

I only moan about particularly a noting individuals

[7Days]

*annoying!

[Millenialcunt]

If there was ever a way to go fishing for Karens this would be it 😂 No but seriously as previous posters have said, it’s a specific type of person based on their attitude/behaviour, not their age. Plenty of young people act like Karens too, complaining about something trivial to a store worker or manager for the sake of ‘making a point’ or harassing non whites in places they feel they shouldn’t be/don’t belong & demanding them to ‘state their purpose’. To put it down to ‘they’re just picking on middle aged white women’ is just lazy