Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

[ArabellaScott]

Aye, OP, misogynist and ageist to the hilt. The words change, the woman-hatred endures.

[tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz]

Black agree. I think there has always been that divide (before I'm corrected!) however as discussed now incidents can be filmed/photographed, possibly edited then uploaded for the world to see. Then it's shared, liked, shared again and can go viral.

Whilst there may be some value in manning and shaming publicly the difference with the generation divide is it's now much more toxic, doesn't really allow space for engaging and debating and you end up with some 25 year old with anxiety who can't leave the house such is their affliction, cyber bullying a person 20 years their senior.

[Blackberrycream]

It is misogynistic. It is also ageist. I am noticing more and more anger and intolerance from younger generations to older ones. It does seem to have become really acceptable to mock middle aged women in all sorts of ways.

[Xenia]

Yes, if a white middle aged woman (or black for that matter) is insulted as soon as she speaks that is a problem. If she reacts she will be filmed against her will and put on youtube in some cases against English law.

[MissLucyEyelesbarrow]

Rather than worrying about words, how about spending more time on challenging bad behaviour.

And how do you propose to do that, given that any woman expressing discontent is now liable to be labelled a Karen, and ignored? Actually, worse than ignored: women are being shamed for having an opinion. The already limited scope allowed to women to challenge anything is being eroded.

[tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz]

Well, what with our "pink" brains ..,

[Downthefarm]

Words are behaviour. The saying and writing of them affects those who hear and read them.

Exactly this. It's not difficult stuff, is it?

[echt]

Rather than worrying about words, how about spending more time on challenging bad behaviour

Words are behaviour. The saying and writing of them affects those who hear and read them.

[Helmetbymidnight]

Rather than worrying about words, how about spending more time on challenging bad behaviour

and another one! 'don't worry your heads about misogyny, girls, there are more important things to worry about.'

[Xenia]

It is one reason I don't like it as a word. it is a bit like when we changed "writ" (a court writ to start a case) to "claim" - claim is such a boring word with other meanings. The lack of precision made communication more difficult.

Better to call a man or woman bossy than a Karen or racist if she or he is racist than these general words which cover a multitude of sins.

[tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz]

Crikey all this time it's never occurred to me to do that must be an age thing.

[Eleganz]

@poppycat10

If you read the thread you'll see that while this name has been used to call out the behaviour you describe from some women, many of us have experienced it for daring to speak up when justified

As I've said a few times on this thread, used for women of a certain age who dare to have an opinion (happy to accept it is also used for younger or more elderly women these days too). Look at Twitter and you'll see women aren't allowed to have an opinion, look at how many female MPs resigned in 2019. The use of the word "karen" is just another manifestation of this and it's very sad that other women join in - a case of bullies joining the bullies.

The reality is that it is both used to call out bad behaviour by entitled older women and as a way to silence legitimate female opinion.

Just like the word "mansplain" is used for men. I have personally see it used in both contexts.

Rather than worrying about words, how about spending more time on challenging bad behaviour.

[poppycat10]

a case of joining the bullies

not bullies joining bullies

[poppycat10]

If you read the thread you'll see that while this name has been used to call out the behaviour you describe from some women, many of us have experienced it for daring to speak up when justified

As I've said a few times on this thread, used for women of a certain age who dare to have an opinion (happy to accept it is also used for younger or more elderly women these days too). Look at Twitter and you'll see women aren't allowed to have an opinion, look at how many female MPs resigned in 2019. The use of the word "karen" is just another manifestation of this and it's very sad that other women join in - a case of bullies joining the bullies.

[tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz]

@TheBuffster

I think we need a word for karenspaining now.
You now, people who arrive to tell us we're racist and don't bother reading the thread.

Can I suggest numpty? Or tool? I've double checked it's not a name, after my previous faux pas

[tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz]

So while black people are still treated so appallingly we can't be pissed about other things?

Ohhhhh k

If you read the thread you'll see that while this name has been used to call out the behaviour you describe from some women, many of us have experienced it for daring to speak up when justified.

[JungOwlWan]

@blueleonburger

“Karen” is used to describe a woman, usually over 40, with a self important, over dramatic, narcissistic attitude, usually discriminatory against minorities and young people. I do feel sorry for those whose real name is Karen. It’s become a terrible slur. But we’re no better on MN. Look at the countless threads criticising men without context for the same behaviour.. We just haven’t made a name up for them yet. And if you’re so offended by the name, think of all those black people that get called much worse and more.

And there never will be a name for them that catches on. Because it doesn't work like that. ONLY women are the fall guys.

There is entitlement out there. But it is not a particular problem amongst middle aged women. SO.Far.From.it.

[TheBuffster]

I think we need a word for karenspaining now.
You now, people who arrive to tell us we're racist and don't bother reading the thread.

[MsTSwift]

Thinking about it Throughout my life the only abuse I’ve got from strangers is from men being sexually grim. Frequently 🙄 less so now am older.

[PinkyParrot]

Karen” is used to describe a woman, usually over 40, with a self important, over dramatic, narcissistic attitude, usually discriminatory against minorities and young people

Unless you are in a public facing role such as police or traffic warden can I ask how many 'Karens' you've come across in real life - because apart from seeing a stroppy American woman filmed on an plane who popped up on twitter I cannot even remember anyone of that description that I've come across in years.

It is pure misogyny to pretend that old women are arsey and rude for no reason when we know they, on the whole, are not. In fact across the population they are probably the least arsey and rude.

But nice one to believe the hype.

[Helmetbymidnight]

Karen” is used to describe a woman, usually over 40, with a self important, over dramatic, narcissistic attitude, usually discriminatory against minorities and young people.

No it isn't.
Its used to describe any woman people disagree with.

And if you’re so offended by the name, think of all those black people that get called much worse and more.

And no, I'm not going to stop thinking about misogyny because of racism.

[blueleonburger]

“Karen” is used to describe a woman, usually over 40, with a self important, over dramatic, narcissistic attitude, usually discriminatory against minorities and young people. I do feel sorry for those whose real name is Karen. It’s become a terrible slur. But we’re no better on MN. Look at the countless threads criticising men without context for the same behaviour.. We just haven’t made a name up for them yet. And if you’re so offended by the name, think of all those black people that get called much worse and more.

[Nellodee]

If you’re defending the use of Karen, it’s worth reading back on my origins post. Karen is the amalgamation of a Switch advertisement with a female gamer, the “talk to the manager” meme, a Saturday night live sketch about a white woman bringing potato salad to a barbecue, but by far the largest element was a Reddit thread from a man who bitterly hated his ex wife Karen. It’s basically now a catch all meme for anything anyone doesn’t like about women.

[Helmetbymidnight]

oh but come on, that man was fighting for racial justice and its excellent he was able to name your friend for what she is.

[lolulop]

My friend was called a Karen last week. She's in her 30s & was called that by a man who looked to be in his late 40s. Her crime, asking the man if he would put a mask on if he was going to sit next to her on a train. Ideally she wouldn't be on the train but only way she can get to work as an A&E doctor, yep so entitled! 🙄