Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

[Dollyplum]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

My teenager asked for they/them pronouns. I too found it so difficult to not slip into she/her and they would get so cross with me. I asked them to refer to me as "birth giver" rather than mom for just one day to see how difficult it is to change. They gave up after half a day lol.

It's second nature now it just takes time x

[quote ElizabethofpeanutYorkies]**@HmmSureJan* @RedToothBrush*
I work in a secondary sch, supporting children and their families with gender issues and transition - yrs7-13.

Op is asking how "she" copes with a new way of addressing her child. Op has asked for help for herself. I am sure OP is aware how this may have impacted her greater extended family. Op has asked for help for herself. [/quote]
There is no support for parents or adult siblings.

Its a taboo subject.

We must submit to demands of the lobbyists.

And ignore that identity is not individual. You dont get to pick and choose however much you may want to.

Because 'reality'.

@XPuppetry

Also please be aware that mumsnet has not the best reputation for discussing trans issues in a way that would be supportive for your child.

I can remember when these sorts of responses were given for gay people. We look back in horror where similar advice about the "impact on family units", not expecting others to go along, ignore and it will go away, dont indulge them etc

Who said the kid is trans? What even is that these days? This kiddo is experimenting, as do a lot of kids so don’t box them already...

My sister came out on the 80s - no hand wringing, wailing, twitching of curtains of ‘what will the neighbours say’. We didn’t have to say one thing and mean another. She didn’t make demands on the family, nor expect anything beyond acceptance.

I will raise my hand at this point and re-iterate that I'm a gender abolitionist radfem - not been on MN for a few years (and not sure why I popped back today) and have the 'usual' MN FWR issues with so many aspects of trans ideologies.

But since DC started identifying as non-binary, I absolutely have gone along with it and won't just ignore their preferences about their own life just because it doesn't line up with my own opinions. My mother has always done this to me - refused to see me for who I am and told me how my choices will ruin my life. We have a terrible relationship.

So, while DC knows my views on a number of trans issues, they also know that I love them fiercely and absolutely accept who they are, and have their back while they try this on for size. I'll talk with them honestly about the risks, dangers, the peer-pressure angles and make sure they aren't falling too far down any rabbit holes. But I will also call them by any name they choose for themselves and use their preferred pronouns too. Because it would just be really rude, arrogant and 'mother knows best' of me not to.

If DC can't trust me to support them in this minor thing, why on earth would they turn to me if things got more serious and the darker trans propaganda came their way? I'm choosing my battles, and this is not where I choose to make my last stand.

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

I didnt say the child was trans.

Your sister may not have experienced it but many did. Its uncomfortable but we can not re-write history and if mumsnet had of existed then it would have looked similar

My parents were certainly told some of the advice about experimenting, dont box them in. I can remember a relative saying that we couldnt "demand" to be treated as a couple, and that acceptance was very different from allowing my partner in the house etc. People refusing to call people married until reasonably recently.

Invisble Women: Exposing data bias in a world designed for men.
Caroline Criado Perez

Page 7.

You declared ‘mumsnet’ - I’m not the only one on here - we all have different experiences and ideas. We aren’t all Amish (not that Amish would be on here anyway).

The comparison between gay and trans is false equivalence.

It always has been.

And many gay and lesbians agree with it being deeply problematic.

Sex is biological reality, gender is a tool of the patriarchy to suppress women. You can't identify out of sexism, she won't earn more money because her 'gender' is different from her sex. And sterilising and mutilating teenagers is not a progressive step. And yes, I have had this discussion with my teenager and will continue to have it if she raises it again. Thankfully she has great non-gender conforming adult females (straight and gay) in her life and so she is aware there is healthier path.

[quote XPuppetry]@ThatIsNotMyUsername

I didnt say the child was trans.

Your sister may not have experienced it but many did. Its uncomfortable but we can not re-write history and if mumsnet had of existed then it would have looked similar

My parents were certainly told some of the advice about experimenting, dont box them in. I can remember a relative saying that we couldnt "demand" to be treated as a couple, and that acceptance was very different from allowing my partner in the house etc. People refusing to call people married until reasonably recently.[/quote]
No you just decided to 'warn' the OP that MN would be hostile towards 'trans issues' as a helpful public service announcement.

I would just explain you will do your best but have been raised to see they and them as plural and it doesnt come naturally to use them with one person.

^This. I would also add that you explain it is a two-way street. You will do your best to address her as she wants and in return she will learn to tolerate your slip ups.

The idea tat this is longstanding grammatical practice is bs. The pronoun they can, under certain circumstances, be used in the singular. It is not and has not been used in the way that is required to make it useful as a non-binary pronoun. We do not say things like "They is going to turn in that report in the morning" and it is awkward and odd sounding.

In any case, pronouns used for people have never referenced gender, they reference sex.

@AnnieLobeseder

I will raise my hand at this point and re-iterate that I'm a gender abolitionist radfem - not been on MN for a few years (and not sure why I popped back today) and have the 'usual' MN FWR issues with so many aspects of trans ideologies.

But since DC started identifying as non-binary, I absolutely have gone along with it and won't just ignore their preferences about their own life just because it doesn't line up with my own opinions. My mother has always done this to me - refused to see me for who I am and told me how my choices will ruin my life. We have a terrible relationship.

So, while DC knows my views on a number of trans issues, they also know that I love them fiercely and absolutely accept who they are, and have their back while they try this on for size. I'll talk with them honestly about the risks, dangers, the peer-pressure angles and make sure they aren't falling too far down any rabbit holes. But I will also call them by any name they choose for themselves and use their preferred pronouns too. Because it would just be really rude, arrogant and 'mother knows best' of me not to.

If DC can't trust me to support them in this minor thing, why on earth would they turn to me if things got more serious and the darker trans propaganda came their way? I'm choosing my battles, and this is not where I choose to make my last stand.

Lovely post. These children need watchful waiting, much love, listening to and letting them know that you support them exploring their identity in the wider world while fighting hard to keep them away from the adults seeking to weaponise children in their own ideology

Hi, you sound like lovely supportive parents. Using they/them pronouns is harder than he/him out she/her because we are not used to it. Have a really honest chat and ask them how much it would mean to them if you use their preferred pronouns. If it means a great deal, just practice until it becomes natural and instinctive. If they aren't that bothered then you may be able to agree to mix and match. Using their preferred name and accepting them for who they are is the most important part. ♥️

The kid isn’t accepting themselves for what they are though.

I haven’t quite grasped the difference between non-binary and gender non-conforming. But it seems that most women don’t embrace all the Barbie doll stereotypes & are therefore non-binary?

I reckon as a slightly overweight frumpy middle-aged woman, I could singlehandedly make it all very untrendy just by declaring myself non-binary. The teenagers would be finding a new way of exploring their angst faster than I could declare my pronouns.