Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

[Dollyplum]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

"@RedToothBrush Do you have other children?
Their identity is partly based on their role in the family unit. Allowing one child to redefine that affects others in the family dynamic. Simple questions like 'do you have any brothers and sisters' become a minefield and quite traumatic. It makes it harder for them to build relationships.
It removes power from other children and my psychologically have an impact on them."

This has to be the biggest load of bollocks i have ever read on MN. Put your uni txt book down darling.

Just keep on using the new pronoun and eventually everybody will get used to it.

If you catch yourself using the wrong pronoun that's OK whilst you're getting used to it. No one's perfect. Just say "oops, sorry, I meant 'they/ them'" and move on with your life. It doesn't have to be a big taboo.

If you make it a big deal then it will feel like a big deal. It's really not, it's just a minor language adjustment!

If you are struggling with other things about your child's transition then that's different and there will be places to get support, but from your post it sounds like it's just to do with the language. That just takes a little while to get used to.

[quote ElizabethofpeanutYorkies]"@RedToothBrush Do you have other children?
Their identity is partly based on their role in the family unit. Allowing one child to redefine that affects others in the family dynamic. Simple questions like 'do you have any brothers and sisters' become a minefield and quite traumatic. It makes it harder for them to build relationships.
It removes power from other children and my psychologically have an impact on them."

This has to be the biggest load of bollocks i have ever read on MN. Put your uni txt book down darling.
[/quote]
Go away and listen to someone who is in this situation and the impact it has on them.

Should you use neutral pronouns for your female child? No, you shouldn't imho.

If you decide to play along with it you might be wise to remind her that plenty of people won't, and that's their prerogative.

Probably not helpful but as a kid who grew up in the 70s/80s in a palette of brown and orange I find it pretty sad and regressive that gender stereotypes have become so entrenched to the point that if you aren't a girly girl or a macho boy you must be non-binary/gender fluid.

It's the very opposite of feminism to think that girls can't be non-girly and have to change their gender identity if they are not sugar and spice and all things nice

Ive found in general there is a lot of faux confusion over they pronouns where people pretend not to understand, when really they just object to the concept.

The use of fake confusion frustrates me as it mean Genuine mistakes can be mistaken for the faux confusion, and tends to be why people are suspicious of people who use the wrong pronouns

If you found a random object on the floor, whos owner was not known then people would use it automatically

"oh no THEY dropped THEIR glove, I should return it to THEM"

I’d respect the pronouns etc but also try to somehow discreetly incorporate some non-feminine women into your household awareness.

Your daughter needs to recognise that women are not all this sexist Barbie stuff that Mermaids et al would have us believe.

Also please be aware that mumsnet has not the best reputation for discussing trans issues in a way that would be supportive for your child.

I can remember when these sorts of responses were given for gay people. We look back in horror where similar advice about the "impact on family units", not expecting others to go along, ignore and it will go away, dont indulge them etc

If you found a random object on the floor, whos owner was not known then people would use it automatically

"oh no THEY dropped THEIR glove, I should return it to THEM"

But that's not the same thing, and it's weird and difficult to constantly refer to your child as if you don't know what sex they are, when you obviously do.

@XPuppetry

Also please be aware that mumsnet has not the best reputation for discussing trans issues in a way that would be supportive for your child.

I can remember when these sorts of responses were given for gay people. We look back in horror where similar advice about the "impact on family units", not expecting others to go along, ignore and it will go away, dont indulge them etc

How does someone else in the family being gay affect anyone else's identity?

When do you have any brothers and sisters as a means to make polite chit chat and relate to others becomes a bit of a minefield its not neutral or no impact.

No one asks you if your siblings are straight or gay in the same way...

I would advise that even if you think it is a phase, you address them by their preferred pronouns. Surely the most important thing is that your kid is comfortable and happy in their home. If you don’t respect their pronouns the chances are it will affect the way they see you in the long term. And they/them pronouns can be used as singular. For example if you found a backpack in the street and didn’t know who’s it was, you might say “someone left their backpack,” or “this backpack needs returning to them,”

Nor does saying your pronouns are 'mir' or' 'xir' change reality or your sex.

Its just enabling and reinforcing sexism rather than rejecting it or challenging it.

In your shoes I'd honestly not go along with it.
I'd support the name change absolutely, their name, their choice. But I wouldn't change the pronouns I use and I don't see how changing/not changing will make them happier/less happy. I'd have a conversation about it, about how I support their choices in terms of lifestyle but this doesn't extend to changing the way (other than name, which is already a pretty big one!) I have known and addressed them for many years. You can respect your child and support them without going with every request they make.
Maybe I'm old fashioned.

@HmmSureJan

I mean that people use "oh its so confusing" "oh it was an accident" "I couldnt possibly remember" when really what they want to say is "I dont agree with how you identify" and its a deliberate choice

People expect people to be generous with mistakes, but unfortunately in my experience the mistakes are rarely accidental

And they/them pronouns can be used as singular. For example if you found a backpack in the street and didn’t know who’s it was, you might say “someone left their backpack,” or “this backpack needs returning to them,”

But again, the language we use to refer to 'unknown person of unknown sex' is not natural to use in reference to our known children whose sex we do know. I'm not saying OP shouldn't try, I'm saying that it IS difficult and it ISN'T usual use of language.

Sex and gender are distinctly different things. Sex is solely what you are assigned at birth from your genitalia. This does not by any means define your gender, which is an entirely separate thing. You may know your child’s sex, but that is by no means their gender

@RedToothBrush

I can certainly remember people telling me to think of what my brother and sisters would say about me being gay/ having a boyfriend. I can certainly remember being told about the impact being exposed to such things would have on them

If you lived through certain passages of time, then you can hear the same themes being repeated

Challenge: describe gender in none sexist terms without reference to clothes or stereotypes.

@HmmSureJan @RedToothBrush
I work in a secondary sch, supporting children and their families with gender issues and transition - yrs7-13.

Op is asking how "she" copes with a new way of addressing her child. Op has asked for help for herself. I am sure OP is aware how this may have impacted her greater extended family. Op has asked for help for herself.

@XPuppetry

Also please be aware that mumsnet has not the best reputation for discussing trans issues in a way that would be supportive for your child.

I can remember when these sorts of responses were given for gay people. We look back in horror where similar advice about the "impact on family units", not expecting others to go along, ignore and it will go away, dont indulge them etc

Being gay doesn't require the use of untested drugs or irreversible surgeries. It isn't related to ASD diagnoses, and as far as I'm aware there aren't large numbers of teenagers who 'de-homosexualise' (for want of a better term) after causing irreparable harm to their bodies. All of these are health and self guarding risks for 'trans' children. Especially in light of the tavistock's own research which shows that transitioning does not improve mental health outcomes. Gender identity is complex and as another poster has already pointed out - identity is rooted in external relationships including social groups and online forums and unobtainable pressures placed on teen girl image. It's no coincidence that 'gender identity issues' have become increasingly common in teens.

But yeah let's not discuss or critically evaluate any of that when we could instead just blindly accept those risks to our children because we have to #bekind