What do we think about THIS....Trigger warning - Graphic Image **title edited by MNHQ

[Nothappywiththis]

I’m not in support of thus. AIBU??

There's no certainty that the transgender athlete has an advantage.

There's massive amounts of evidence (recent research by world rugby for instance) that men lose very little of the enormous advantage they have over women by taking hormones or having surgery.

But there's none so blind as them as won't see...

Let's not fall back on the old political correctness/woke vs intolerance/transphobic blunt thinking

Are we allowed to fall back on 'stuff everyone knows and always has'?

they chose to compete against FF - they did not know FF was a trans woman until after they fractured their skull

Not quite - they didn't know FF was a TW (man) until they stepped into the ring with them - and by then they were committed and couldn't leave.

The whole sport should be banned

I can’t really have a view on this because as far as I’m concerned boxing etc should be banned.

the science?

we are witnessing the dismantling of women's sports: cycling, football, weight-lifting, athletics- just because some weird people like to pretend that a mans internal gender is more important than a woman's material reality.

people who support this (esp women, like the one in the aclu who said she would be happy if all womens sports teams were made up of transwomen 🤷🏼‍♀️) make me very cross.

It’s a free country. If women want to fight her that’s up to them.

Completely missing the point

@addicted2spaniels

My God, that is horrific.

Women need to start kicking back against this. And it scares me that more of us aren't, tbh.

Many of us have been. This happened years ago, and plenty of women have been shouting about Fallon Fox, Hannah Mouncey, Laurel Hubbard, Rachael McKinnon, Andrea Yearwood etc for years - only to be told that we’re awful TERFs and should just let these poor ‘women’ enjoy their sports and that they all just want to live as their authentic selves and “pee in peace”. This stuff “never happens”. Until it does.

It’s fucked up. We’ve been telling you all this for fucking years. Now it’s finally all coming to a head due to Biden and his new trans friendly policies on letting males into women’s college sports as a matter of urgency. And now it’s all “I’m usually aghast at all the trans threads, but this one is too far”. This IS THE ESSENCE of what the feminists of Mumsnet have been so angry about all along!!

Finally.

There's no certainty that the transgender athlete has an advantage.

If said male has gone through a male puberty then he will, for the vast majority of cases, have a physical advantage when competing against women. This is why sport is sex segregated. Because otherwise women would not be able to compete fairly or safely.

@Aisforharlot

Disgusting, i hope they are prosecuted.

@aisforharlot why would they be prosecuted?

There's no certainty that the transgender athlete has an advantage

you havent noticed there are physical differences between men and women?

unbelievable.

And those saying women had a choice about whether or not to fight FF.

No they didn’t.

Until two horrific attacks on unsuspecting women had already happened, it wasn’t common knowledge that FF was trans.

After it became known, female MMA fighters would have faced the same shit that every woman in the public eye has faced when pointing out that TW are NOT W. Cancelling, rape and death threats, loss of earnings, potential legal ramifications and the loss of a career they’d worked all their lives for. What a choice.

MarkRuffaloCrumble

I’ve been (mostly lurking) on the feminist boards for a couple of years now.
I really hope this is finally starting to come to a head.

I used to box and if a trans woman was in the same weight category as me I wouldn’t necessarily think it would be a problem. There’s a lot of skill to boxing and pure strength isn’t everything. This however, is MMA and it’s disgusting. The “sport” should be banned. This is not a good example of why trans women and women shouldn’t compete, it’s so awful it just derails the whole debate.

Here is what Fallon has to say about it...

Well isn’t that just fucking charming? This should not be allowed. On a very basic level, I have to ask the DH to open jars for me sometimes, he is just stronger than me. No way should a biological male be put against a woman.

make sure transmen feel accepted when competing against other females by ensuring that regulation outfits are designed around practicality and the body's needs; not sexiness

I'm not sure what you mean by this - top class athletes always wear outfits which maximise sporting performance . They would never sacrifice practicality for "sexiness".

Make sure transwomen feel accepted when competing against other males by education to prevent bullying

It isn't a matter of bullying - it's a matter of them being poor performers when competing against other men, but able to be "top class" when competing against women.

@Ostryga

I’m starting to think that we just need to get rid of the men. Just, chuck them all in a volcano or something. Life wouldn’t be perfect, but it won’t be this insanity constantly.

What’s the logical conclusion of this - that birth females step away or a beaten (competitively or physically) so that the only competitors left are TW vs TW?

Fallon Fox apparently decided to “become a woman” at 31 years of age. Just reading more about him, several people in the profession had their contracts suspended when speaking out about their disapproval. As well as being painted with the usual “transphobic” comments.

@Helmetbymidnight

the science?

we are witnessing the dismantling of women's sports: cycling, football, weight-lifting, athletics- just because some weird people like to pretend that a mans internal gender is more important than a woman's material reality.

people who support this (esp women, like the one in the aclu who said she would be happy if all womens sports teams were made up of transwomen 🤷🏼‍♀️) make me very cross.

Exactly - there will be no women's sport at all if this continues.

At the highest levels, women will not want to put in the hours of training required just to be beaten every single time by a what is essentially man with a girl's name.

At local sports level, girls will not want to change and shower with genitally intact males who insist that they should share the same facilities.

Women will drop out of sport.

@BarbaraofKent

Very good point, and you're right. If I was a fighter, there's no way I'd have wanted to go up against a fighter than had been born male. But, presumably, the fighters that did had that choice and decided to.

Well, as a female athlete, if you declare that you are not going to go up against a particular competitor because they were born male, then you risk having your entire reputation smeared as a 'Transphobe' and 'bigot', risk losing sponsorship, risk your whole career. So I don't think it's quite as easy as just saying no.

Some did not have the choice though because Fox did not actually come out as trans until after two years of fighting professionally.

THAT is the worst part.

@PuzzledObserver

I can’t really have a view on this because as far as I’m concerned boxing etc should be banned.

I think that too.

I still manage to have a view on this because it's not beyond my cognitive skills to operate with a teeny bit of nuance

every person who chants TWAW or has 'she/her' in the profile believes 'identity' trumps 'biology' so they actually are more than happy to see women beaten or beaten up in womens sports by men who identify as women. that for them, is a good thing.

Men are physically stronger than women
Hence the thousands of years of inequality, oppression, rapes and control.

Now we are supposed to pretend we haven't noticed any if this be cause some men have a gender identity which makes them the same as us.