What do we think about THIS....Trigger warning - Graphic Image **title edited by MNHQ

[Nothappywiththis]

I’m not in support of thus. AIBU??

do you think the trans MMA fighters don't train?

No, which is why I repeatedly make the point that I don't think these fights should have been allowed

Curious about samphire has laid it out pretty succinctly as usual above 👍

SummerBlondey

Excellent post. I remember back in April 2019, when Canadian cyclist Rachel McKinnon was boasting about the weightlifting they were doing (bearing in mind transgender athletes always stress how much weaker they are) and someone on this forum did an excellent piece of research work:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3573615-Rachel-McKinnon-weightlifting-results-compared-to-male-and-female-powerlifters

And a poor message to give out to women, if insinuating that we were all trained fighters we'd be ok. Chances are, we won't be.

And reality was, I wasn’t.

And that was from someone who claimed to love me.

I may have been trained but I was no match for him.

God only knows what would have happened if he’d been desperately trying to win a championship or if he was fighting because he hated women.

I was lucky just to have been broken.

Just because someone transitions in sport or in life, it doesn’t make that kind of capability go away at the flash of a petticoat or a smudge of lippy.

Sorry that happened to you.

Two Olympic gold medallist

High Jump. 2.03m. 1.86m
Long Jump. 7.22m. 6.48m
Shot put. 15.35m. 14.79m
Javelin. 68.52m. 47.49m

These are the statistics for Caitlyn Jenner and Jessica Ennis. Either athletes have got much poorer since 1976 or Jessica Ennis just wasn't trying hard enough or maybe Caitlyn had some natural advantages when competing in the male only decathlon.

[quote andyoldlabour]SummerBlondey

Excellent post. I remember back in April 2019, when Canadian cyclist Rachel McKinnon was boasting about the weightlifting they were doing (bearing in mind transgender athletes always stress how much weaker they are) and someone on this forum did an excellent piece of research work:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3573615-Rachel-McKinnon-weightlifting-results-compared-to-male-and-female-powerlifters[/quote]
Sort of off topic but the analysis is off.
By low ROM (range of motion) deadlift (judging by the setup) she's talking about a Rack pull.
A conventional deadlift is a weight pulled from the floor, a rack pull is the same as a deadlift, but with the bar elevated (so the bar travels a fraction of the deadlift length).
It's sort of like the difference between how much weight you can "walk out" of a squat rack, Vs how much you can actually squat.
Ignoring all the variables for what I typically see during training, someone being able to rack pull 1.5x what they could deadlift would be pretty standard.

what they could deadlift would be pretty standard.

" Standard?" for an elite female athlete or a mediocre male athlete?

@334bu

*what they could deadlift would be pretty standard.*

" Standard?" for an elite female athlete or a mediocre male athlete?

Anyone. We're just talking ratios here. But I can confidently say that any competitive female powerlifter of roughly the same size (and likely smaller) would blow a 185kg single rack pull out of the water. It would be warmup material at best.

For reference, this is a "fitness influencer" who competed in the CrossFit open at 137lbs and placed 605th.
Basically very fit by most standards but not an elite athlete. Toward the end she rack pulls 500lbs for a double.

So an elite female weightlifter can lift as heavy a weight as an elite male weightlifter. Can you give us some evidence of that?

So an elite female weightlifter can lift as heavy a weight as an elite male weightlifter

I didn't say that, so I'm not sure where you got it from

Deng Wei (64 k) Olympic women's gold medallist Snatch 115 kilos

Feng Pudong(66k) Olympic men's golf medallist Snatch. 153 kilos

Looks like Wei wasn't trying hard enough.

I think you're missing my point.
Any serious lifter, male or female would rack pull more than Rachel McKinnon.
This is irrespective of gender.
The analysis suggested that Rachel McKinnon was stronger than the average female competitive powerlifter of her size because the poster was unintentionally comparing a much easier variation of an exercise to its "base" form.
I would expect an elite female Olympic weightlifter to be weaker than a male Olympic weightlifter of the same size.
I would expect the given example of a transgender cyclist to be weaker than both at the same size and the analysis from the poster bears this out.

So because Rachel was born male you would expect her to be faster than a female cyclist of similar ability and training regime?

@334bu

So because Rachel was born male you would expect her to be faster than a female cyclist of similar ability and training regime?

The use of "so..." implies that your question is somehow related to something I've said. It's not, as far as I can see.

Not sure why you brought up the fact that somebody got it wrong about Rachel McKinnons mediocre weightlifting abilities. Rachel is a cyclist ,and as a person born male can outperform female cyclists as would be expected given the advantages of having undergone male puberty. Is there something about weightlifting which is germane to that?

@334bu

So because Rachel was born male you would expect her to be faster than a female cyclist of similar ability and training regime?

Yes.

@334bu

Not sure why you brought up the fact that somebody got it wrong about Rachel McKinnons mediocre weightlifting abilities. Rachel is a cyclist ,and as a person born male can outperform female cyclists as would be expected given the advantages of having undergone male puberty. Is there something about weightlifting which is germane to that?

Because the conclusion was that female born athletes who specialise in powerlifting were outlifted by a transgendered person who competes in another sport and this is proof that going through male development imbues transgendered women with the sort of power that completely eclipses women's. My point was that if the data was interpreted correctly, then no, the competitive powerlifters would not have their heads turned by the referenced lift, let alone be beaten. That's literally it. If weightlifting abilities were completely irrelevant to the conversation, the "evidence" wouldn't have been brought up. As it was, I addressed the misinformation. It is not really open to interpretation. A rack pull is literally an easier deadlift.

wow! I think of a billion things worse than this! 😂😂😂

Worse than what alphabetsoup? The ops post?

Thank you for your explanation. Don't suppose Rachel could outrun Dina Asher Smith or outplay Serena Williams either. However, if Rachel were an elite sprinter or tennis champion,cthen all bets would be off.

Some of you may have heard of CeCe Telfer.

CeCe is a US track and field athlete who used to be known as Craig. As Craig, this athlete was mediocre.

As CeCe, CeCe is now a National women's champion.

CeCe has a crowdfunder going because they want to enter the Olympics for this year.

uk.gofundme.com/f/GoTeamCeCe?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=p_cp%20share-sheet&fbclid=IwAR3Dy1r5XYNq-_MqvYmuVSqbwG4xv2x6khZuJlsorhzxLOcHmTE-WDmUxyg

mobile.twitter.com/LabelFreeBrands/status/1354753411879583744
CeCe showing how it is done. 2nd clip on the above thread.

I say CeeCee

I read CuntyChops.

So for those posing the argument about ‘tall women’ and how unfair sport is anyway with genetic differences with the sexes so it shouldn’t matter about including males, here is a recent thread from Ross Tucker refuting the Newsweek article written saying just that.

twitter.com/scienceofsport/status/1362645059267616774?s=12

Well worth a read.