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What do we think about THIS....Trigger warning - Graphic Image **title edited by MNHQ

806 replies

Nothappywiththis · 14/02/2021 15:36

I’m not in support of thus. AIBU??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
PotholeParadies · 14/02/2021 22:12

@SchadenfreudePersonified

No, why do you think I'm joking? It's a much, much less important issue than women's safety, but it's still a valid concern. Why should a man be forced to fight someone who is female-bodied, just to validate that person's belief about gender identity? I certainly would not want to fight someone I knew to be much weaker than me. I would feel dreadful if I injured them - totally different scenario from an equally matched fight

But it's acceptable for women to be forced to be at risk to validate men's gender identities?

YOU might feel dreadful if you injured someone weaker than yourself. Many TW don't.

MissLucy doesn't think that. As martial.arts enthusiasts ourselves, we're on the same page: no male-born people in women's sports, especially full-contact ones.
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 14/02/2021 22:15

But it's acceptable for women to be forced to be at risk to validate men's gender identities?*

Where did I say that? That's a total non-sequitur and the opposite of my clearly stated views on this thread.

You're attributing views to me that are the complete opposite of the ones I've actually expressedConfused

Fembot123 · 14/02/2021 22:16

Thanks @IamBarbaraofKent ☺️

gardenbird48 · 14/02/2021 22:16

[quote FuchMyLife]Whilst I'm not comfortable with trans women competing in female sports as even though they lose some of the advantages of being male they still have bigger hearts, lung capacity, bone structure and muscle mass than the average female in that particular sport.

What I resent is this incident being dug up from the history books to bash trans rights activists with.

MMA is notoriously dangerous and there have been a number of fractured skulls in the sport every between two females at let's look at the bigger picture here and deal with what's really at steak - people sacrificing their health and even their lives for bloody entertainment.

talksport.com/sport/mma/679321/ufc-karolina-kowalkiewicz-mma-broken-eye-socket-titanium-plate-surgery/[/quote]
so should we just forget about this? The point is that more and more male born people are self identifying into women's sports.

Stonewall is currently campaigning for male born transgender people to be allowed to play women's rugby despite the huge additional risk of serious injury or death for the women. A study on this was carried out by World Rugby but the solid evidence this provided is still being ignored by various sporting bodies and they are allowing male born people to compete against women.

Fallon Fox received a 'Sportswoman of the Year' award on the grounds that Fallon was 'outed' against Fallon's will - ie. Fallon was forced to admit that they were male and shouldn't be competing in the women's classes.

The Feminist Chat board on here has been discussing, researching and trying to raise the alarm about this for years - if you think it is morally wrong, come and discuss what can be done about it - it will only get worse if we don't do anything about it.

RhubarbAndRoses · 14/02/2021 22:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Winesalot · 14/02/2021 22:17

[quote FuchMyLife]Whilst I'm not comfortable with trans women competing in female sports as even though they lose some of the advantages of being male they still have bigger hearts, lung capacity, bone structure and muscle mass than the average female in that particular sport.

What I resent is this incident being dug up from the history books to bash trans rights activists with.

MMA is notoriously dangerous and there have been a number of fractured skulls in the sport every between two females at let's look at the bigger picture here and deal with what's really at steak - people sacrificing their health and even their lives for bloody entertainment.

talksport.com/sport/mma/679321/ufc-karolina-kowalkiewicz-mma-broken-eye-socket-titanium-plate-surgery/[/quote]
I think you will find Fox had ‘dug up’ themselves on social media this past week in support of Biden’s policy on transgender people in sports.

The save women’s sports have been working hard to be heard, yet this weekend Kathy Griffin shamed a very nervous teenaged girl who is fighting a legal battle because she lost a scholarship to a transgirl (who only transitioned maybe 12 months before the race and iirc hadn’t medically transitioned at all). Shamed her for being nervous when I doubt this girl is being protected from abuse in any way for going to court as it is.

That is why this has been circulating again. It is because Fox is again out there denying the science and calling anyone who objects derogatory slurs.l all in the support of these laws that will continue to harm women and girls.

Fembot123 · 14/02/2021 22:18

I wouldn’t say he put it perfectly 😂

Fembot123 · 14/02/2021 22:19

That’s awful @Winesalot, thanks for the information ☺️

WeAreJackieWeaver · 14/02/2021 22:24

Fallon Fox is the tip of a very disconcerting iceberg.
In cycling, the fastest man over 25 miles has now transitioned after losing their place in the GB youth team. If they get picked for the women’s team in the Olympics, not only will a woman lose her place and the sponsorship that goes with it, he will be setting records in women’s cycling that women can never, ever beat.

RhubarbAndRoses · 14/02/2021 22:24

@Fembot123 No? Seems pretty spot on to me 😬 It is quoted from a podcast, it wasn’t actually written by him, hence the all over the place wording. This person once had a dick..they might not have a dick anymore but the rest of them hasn’t changed has it? The rest of them is still built as a male. A male body that is now competing against female bodies. It is not ok. It will never be ok.

Hotzenplotz · 14/02/2021 22:25

@lifeturnsonadime

Which 11 % are in support of this?

Males should not be in women's sport. There is no justification for it on any level.

Exactly! Hideous.
redpencil77 · 14/02/2021 22:29

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-55721123

Make sure we "Jedi" this question

ScreamingBeans · 14/02/2021 22:35

What do we think about this is the question.

What I think about this is that boxing is intrinsically dangerous, but normally, organised by biological, physical cateogories so that there is some kind of equal playing field.

So bantam weights are never put in the ring with heavy weights. Everyone understands that would be wrong, even if they don't understand the ins and outs of why it is wrong.

What's striking, is that no one has to become an expert in biology, to argue the case that it would be horrendously unfair and dangerous, to put a bantamweight up against a heavyweight. People accept that it's wrong without needing epidemiological data presented on a platter.

But when we argue for women's sports, there are endless demands for proof that being male is different from being female.

That's what I think of that.

Winesalot · 14/02/2021 22:36

I am just posting this most recent research paper for all those who believe there is no advantage for males who have gone through puberty and that lowering testosterone has much effect in reducing that.

For all those who are saying they would fight a similar sized male, please look at the punch power difference between male and female.

The power produced during a punch was 162% greater in males than in females, and the least powerful man produced more power than the most powerful woman.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3

If you are still not convinced (and this is a peer reviewed study of 11 different already peer reviewed studies), there recently was a military study following the performance of transpeople in their physical training. Although, there were issues including that the males after transitioning may have only been aiming to pass their PT at the new ‘women’s’ level so down graded their training to suit.

Males cause harm competing against women even if they don’t win. Their inclusion means a girl or a woman loses a place on the team, loses training opportunities, loses places, loses prizes, loses their scholarships amongst many other losses. Often that male had also had the benefits of better training, opportunities, everything before they started competing against women. They might also be much older than the other women (this is happening across different sports). They also have never had to deal with training issues and menstrual cycles.

So, just because the male might not win, they may have caused someone to lose their dream because they took a spot. There is also a very misogynistic attitude that women should just try/train harder coming through.

Someone asked upthread if transwomen can compete in the male completions. Yes!!! Of course they can. They have that choice.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 14/02/2021 22:38

@itallworkedouthorribly

Nope, you should feel sick.

No, you do not get to decide whose brain you invade with this.

You have the choice to click on the thread or not - and you did - after the trigger warning was put on - so that's on you.

It's disgusting, yes. It needs to be said and spread widely because women's rights are being eroded left, right and centre.

I'm all for women boycotting this sport (for a while) so that arseholes like that person have only males to fight with. That would be fair. I imagine some of those males will have wives, girlfriends, sisters that they love and respect. I'll leave it there.

Justanotherlurker · 14/02/2021 22:38

Do you have any actual news to back this facebook post up?

I know there was a Fallon transgender that entered mixed mma in 2014 that resulted in a smashed skull but from what I remember (I do BJJ) there has not been an incident in there being 2 , Fallon was roundly critisid by the movement, government body and spectators. The governing body doesn't really accept it outside of some 'liberal' US cities own governing bodies.

It's a valuable topic, but there is no need to be spreading fake facebook posts that lack any credibility.

gardenbird48 · 14/02/2021 22:40

for anyone thinking that this is not relevant for today - check out this thread. The British Kickboxing Council are looking at 'inclusion' in kickboxing - meaning that they are consulting with organisations like Mermaids and Stonewall who have a very poor safeguarding record and a complete bias against safety and fairness for women and girls in sports.

The questions the British Kickboxing Council needs to ask itself are:

Why do we have sex segregation in the first place?
How can we keep the sport safe for female participants by not allowing male people to compete against them?
How can we keep the sport fair for female participants by not allowing male people to compete against them?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4165671-Call-for-action-womens-sports

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 14/02/2021 22:42

@WeAreJackieWeaver

What we do from here on in is withdraw from these events, withdraw our daughters, withdraw ourselves, our support, our money.

The trouble is, if we do this then women and our daughters miss out on sports they love.
The governing bodies are at fault. None of them have consulted women when they made these policies. None at all.

We could withdraw all of that for a while... it leaves the thugs with nobody mis-matched to fight. It's not fair but better that than our daughters being hurt or killed because they're fighting somebody who was born male.

We can withdraw and I think we should do that whilst we rally and gather momentum to overturn this fuckwittery.

Fembot123 · 14/02/2021 22:43

@Winesalot

I am just posting this most recent research paper for all those who believe there is no advantage for males who have gone through puberty and that lowering testosterone has much effect in reducing that.

For all those who are saying they would fight a similar sized male, please look at the punch power difference between male and female.

The power produced during a punch was 162% greater in males than in females, and the least powerful man produced more power than the most powerful woman.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3

If you are still not convinced (and this is a peer reviewed study of 11 different already peer reviewed studies), there recently was a military study following the performance of transpeople in their physical training. Although, there were issues including that the males after transitioning may have only been aiming to pass their PT at the new ‘women’s’ level so down graded their training to suit.

Males cause harm competing against women even if they don’t win. Their inclusion means a girl or a woman loses a place on the team, loses training opportunities, loses places, loses prizes, loses their scholarships amongst many other losses. Often that male had also had the benefits of better training, opportunities, everything before they started competing against women. They might also be much older than the other women (this is happening across different sports). They also have never had to deal with training issues and menstrual cycles.

So, just because the male might not win, they may have caused someone to lose their dream because they took a spot. There is also a very misogynistic attitude that women should just try/train harder coming through.

Someone asked upthread if transwomen can compete in the male completions. Yes!!! Of course they can. They have that choice.

That was me, wow! So they have the choice and chose to fight women??
Winesalot · 14/02/2021 22:56

That was me, wow! So they have the choice and chose to fight women??

I believe so. But someone might come through and correct me if I am wrong in regards to MMA etc.

The Kent women’s cricketer of the year plays both men’s and women’s comps since transitioning. Has had average performance as a man and lo and behold when playing with slower bowlers, lighter balls, and other adjustments for women’s comp is setting legendary records. And being awarded for it. Still average in the men’s comp though.

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2021 22:56

YANBU, OP.

Anybody born male retains obvious physical advantages over females - height, strength, weight, etc.

It's unfair and it's dangerous.

Wearywithteens · 14/02/2021 23:00

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

TriflePudding · 14/02/2021 23:02

Justanotherlurker

Go and look at Fallon’s own social media account where they gleefully discuss how they smashed the woman’s skull in.

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2021 23:03

Poll's showing 3%, of 1497 votes, now.

334bu · 14/02/2021 23:07

mobile.twitter.com/LabelFreeBrands/status/1354753411879583744

Second clip on this thread. Indifferent male athlete changes to female sports and hey presto!.

Swipe left for the next trending thread