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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Punishing the wrong person aibu

534 replies

Createsuser · 13/02/2021 07:09

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

OP posts:
SecretSpAD · 13/02/2021 08:16

@Createsuser

A is very similar to his grandad in some ways, despite being 13 he has the maturity of someone much older so he’s hurt on a personal level. My take on it is that the grandfather is over sensitive, B was thoughtless but wasn’t directly insulting the Grandfather and didn’t expect him to react that way. He started shouting at her which is why she hung up. The grandparents are now highly offended and taking it way too personally.
If one of my kids insulted either of their grandfathers I would not be dismissing their grandfathers feelings as over sensitive. The grandparents are obviously funding something for their grandchildren and are totally in the right to decide not to fund a rude child. And that's what they are - not funny, not cheeky, rude and lacking respect - nit just because he's the elder, but because he is a human being.
Original poster
Createsuser · 13/02/2021 08:21

It would be completely outing! As close as I can get, B starts singing sea shanties because they are popular on Reddit when Grandfather sunk his yacht last year and is cut up about it. B meant no harm and has of course apologised but Grandfather won’t forgive her.

OP posts:
Griselda1 · 13/02/2021 08:21

If it's as traditional a family as you describe then this will have a huge impact on everyone. Whilst Granddad needs to learn that the children are growing up and learning some independence, the daughter needs to learn not to insult her GF. If it's such a patriarchy I can see why the gd is testing the boundaries, the family need to discuss this together and find a way forward. If GF is elderly I'd be worried about this having upset him during an already stressful period

PracticingPerson · 13/02/2021 08:21

@Createsuser

From what I understand the parents have had a word and explained that A wasn’t involved and that they had no idea B was going to behave that way. The grandfather is humiliated basically. He takes his role as head of the family seriously.
'Humiliated' seems excessive. A child was either pratting about or was rude. Hoewever rude an 11 year old was to me in a private zoom call with family, I would not feel humiliated, because their rudeness doesn't reflect on me. I would give a warning and then end the call if their behaviour was not improving.

The issue is this is an old-school patriach by the sound of it, and it is horrible that he is using this incident to drive a wedge between the siblings.

To me, the GF sounds like a massive PITA.

If the kid was rude, you just deal with it normally. No need for family feuds and fake humiliation.

SylviaPlath1984 · 13/02/2021 08:22

B sounds like a handful, and let me tell you that dismissing her behaviours as "cheeky" and fun is doing her no favours, she's clearly downright rude. Now perhaps is a good opportunity for her parents to explain why this sort of behaviour is hurtful and help B to change her ways before it becomes a bad personality trait. She will be one of those loathe some adults who's says such phrases as "I'm only telling it as it is!" And "I just say what I think!" No diplomacy or tact and thinks saying the above phrases should negate them from any repercussions. "It's just who they are..." 🙄

A should be furious.

The grandfather is well within his rights to withhold whatever it is he's withholding, hopefully he makes it up to A another way somehow.

Nith · 13/02/2021 08:22

Can your friend replace whatever it is the grandfather was providing?

It sounds like they need to think seriously about removing power from the grandfather by telling him that they can't accept benefits for the children if they're going to be used to control them.

Aaaaaah · 13/02/2021 08:23

The two issues should be separate
Your DF needs to tell her DF that gifts or whatever, should be given uncondionally or not at all, they are not a stick to beat them with
Your DF needs to speak to their child , they are old enough to know better
Cheeky to you may be insulting to me, the child needs to apologise

AStudyinPink · 13/02/2021 08:24

As close as I can get, B starts singing sea shanties because they are popular on Reddit when Grandfather sunk his yacht last year and is cut up about it.

But this could be the DD singing songs from the Lion King when Grandad lost a pet. It’s just too hard to know how rude she was.

However, what we do know is Grandad was genuinely upset, and it’s his money so 🤷🏻‍♀️

PracticingPerson · 13/02/2021 08:24

@Nith

Can your friend replace whatever it is the grandfather was providing?

It sounds like they need to think seriously about removing power from the grandfather by telling him that they can't accept benefits for the children if they're going to be used to control them.

I 100% agree with this. I would not accept anything from someone who would take it away in a tantrum.
SylviaPlath1984 · 13/02/2021 08:24

@Aaaaaah

The two issues should be separate Your DF needs to tell her DF that gifts or whatever, should be given uncondionally or not at all, they are not a stick to beat them with Your DF needs to speak to their child , they are old enough to know better Cheeky to you may be insulting to me, the child needs to apologise
Having rewards and pleasant gifts that are unconditional is ridiculous... what does that teach the children? Behave however you want and hurt who you want you can still have all these nice things! Er no I don't think so.
AStudyinPink · 13/02/2021 08:25

Your DF needs to tell her DF that gifts or whatever, should be given uncondionally or not at all, they are not a stick to beat them with

But this isn’t the case. I agree that gifts shouldn’t be used ‘as a stick’, in other words to control the child’s behaviour, but that isn’t quite what the GF is doing. He’s saying “You were rude and hurt my feelings - no present for you.” Not “Come and apologise and you can have your present.” I think that’s reasonable.

SylviaPlath1984 · 13/02/2021 08:27

There's a real split in opinion here isn't there!

People who want to raise decent kids who don't go around offending whom ever they please without consequence...

And those who's children are so precious and mollycoddled that they are aghast someone might punish them for bad behaviour!

To think we sometimes wonder why each generation is less respectful and more of a handful... wonder if it's anything to do with the parenting!!!!

Allgirlskidsanddogs · 13/02/2021 08:27

Someone needs to talk to the GF.
The child has apologised. Understanding of the strains of lockdown needs to be appreciated by the adult. As a family I would be going very LC with GF if he couldn’t move on from this and cancel the punishment for both GC.

TeenMinusTests · 13/02/2021 08:28

Get B to write a proper hand written letter saying how sorry he is, he is only 11 and sometimes thoughtless.
Get him to say that A was not involved at all.

A handwritten note might seem much more meaningful than a verbal apology or email.

toodleloooo · 13/02/2021 08:28

Without knowing the nature of the comments I have some sympathy for the 11 year old. I remember at that age having just started secondary school I had a short phase of making "cheeky" comments - never personal, but just making light of situations generally. It was about trying to see where I could fit and settled pretty quickly.

If grandad were genuinely hurt it would have been a good opportunity to set some boundaries with her and explain when a joke goes too far. However, from what you've said it sounds like grandad is more concerned about a perceived challenge to his "head of the family" status which I think is pretty disappointing. Unfortunately while B will probably grow out of it/settle in time, especially with adult guidance, I can't imagine you can reason much with grandad. Real shame.

Original poster
Createsuser · 13/02/2021 08:30

A is upset but is saying “sometimes people make bad decisions for the greater good”Confused he won’t say a word against his grandfather.

OP posts:
SylviaPlath1984 · 13/02/2021 08:31

@Createsuser

A is upset but is saying “sometimes people make bad decisions for the greater good”Confused he won’t say a word against his grandfather.
He seems far more mature and reasonable than most of the adults commenting here. Poor lad, I hope the grandfather makes it up to him at some point.
Aaaaaah · 13/02/2021 08:32

No, that's not my point. He shouldn't use withdrawing his gift or whatever as a way to control his grandchildren, especially the one who has done nothing wrong
The parents should deal with it accordingly, not the GF

SnuggyBuggy · 13/02/2021 08:33

A 3 year old being described as cheeky is probably cute, an 11 year old rarely is. If handled well this could be a really important teaching moment for the 11 year old and how she speaks to other people.

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 13/02/2021 08:33

Gf sounds like one of those dreadful old men who expect everything to be done their way and has very little idea about the realities of children. His role as head of the family? Give over. Respect your elders? Respect is earned. Frankly I would have very little respect for him for punishing A for something B did. Lockdown is affecting everyone so maybe thats why B didnt realise they missed the mark and why he is taking it so personally?

PracticingPerson · 13/02/2021 08:35

@SylviaPlath1984

There's a real split in opinion here isn't there!

People who want to raise decent kids who don't go around offending whom ever they please without consequence...

And those who's children are so precious and mollycoddled that they are aghast someone might punish them for bad behaviour!

To think we sometimes wonder why each generation is less respectful and more of a handful... wonder if it's anything to do with the parenting!!!!

My first thought on reading this would breach talk guidelines!

As for each generation being 'more of a handful' - the sociological evidence does not bear this out. Young people are much less likely these days to resort to violence to resolve arguments for example - which research has shown is likely due to not being hit by elders such as teachers. The world was not lovely back then, although maybe you feel disappointed it is no longer acceptable to clip other people's kids round the ear.

Original poster
Createsuser · 13/02/2021 08:35

DFriend can’t replace it no but she could do something smaller which I believe she has already decided to do.

OP posts:
SylviaPlath1984 · 13/02/2021 08:37

@PracticingPerson

So you're one of those people who let their children get away with terrible behaviour. You can just come out and say it no need to beat around the bush.

toodleloooo · 13/02/2021 08:37

There's a real split in opinion here isn't there!

People who want to raise decent kids who don't go around offending whom ever they please without consequence...

And those who's children are so precious and mollycoddled that they are aghast someone might punish them for bad behaviour!

I'm not sure that's the split. A lot of people are still talking about disciplining B, but by doing something a bit more constructive than just taking away something valuable. And especially something valuable to her and her sibling who wasn't even involved.

PracticingPerson · 13/02/2021 08:37

@Createsuser

A is upset but is saying “sometimes people make bad decisions for the greater good”Confused he won’t say a word against his grandfather.
This sounds a bit grim and unhealthy.
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